Fish in a Barrel

[SlyAK]

I would never feel the urge unless the person was a friend. Don't we all like the bad players?? I had a guy at my on-line table the other night who was horrible. He was a friendly guy who struck up a conversation with me, because he only lived about 25 miles away. In no way would I think about giving him tips at all, (although I did ask him if he played in a home game.... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] )

[bwana devil]

I like to play the heads up SnGs at UB sometimes. I've played w/ some people I thought were just horrible. One person simply folded each time I raised. About one in ten times the person re-raised so I knew he had a very strong hand.

I've been tempted to tell the person at the end of the game my impressions of his play but didnt for fear of looking like a gloating jerk. I would think if the person made some adjustments, he would get more pleasure. (I know I was certainly bored playing him).

So the answer, is no, I've never told anyone, but I've been tempted.

bwana

[playerfl]

the poker table is not the place to give advice.

Imagine if you were playing tennis against somebody for money, and they play badly. Would you give them advice during the game ? If you did you would come off as making fun of him and add insult to the injury of losing.

[Pirc Defense]

About four years ago I played poker for the first time ever, in Vegas. I look back now and wonder how I lasted any time at all at the table. I didn't even understand what a flush was.

$4/$8 or thereabouts, and two old men were amongst my opponents. One, who clearly didn't like me or my fishyness, said, "listen, whenever I bet, you fold. Got it?" The other guy shook his head and said, "man, don't tell him that." He then took the time between hands to explain some very basic concepts and gave me a few hints. Like what a flush was. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Funny thing is, about a year after that I'm back in Vegas at the Mirage and I the nicer of the two old men is at the same table as me. I ask if he remembers me and he said he did. Kinda neat, is all.

My point is this: while I would seldom go out of my way to help a fish, since doing so has a high probablity of costing me money, I did appreciate this man helping me out.

I would do it in person, but not online.

[uuDevil]

[ QUOTE ]
My point is this: while I would seldom go out of my way to help a fish, since doing so has a high probablity of costing me money, I did appreciate this man helping me out.


[/ QUOTE ]

I largely agree, but the cost of educating trully bad players may not be as high it might seem. To continue the metaphor, you could consider it "throwing back the small ones." If they keep their money longer, it helps them yes, but they'll also be around longer for you to get some of it. Plus if they have a good experience, maybe they introduce their friends to the game. They may even look for you and be happy to play with you since you are so helpful and nice. But I wouldn't do it online and not at the table.

Update: I was at a table with the player who inspired this thread last night. I have J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in a raised pot and bet all the way on a board of J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and this player caps the river after calling all the way. I think "wth, quad 4's?" But no, he shows Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and we split it. He says, "nh." Amazed by this unexpected display of naked aggression, I respond "u too."

[HentaiGaijin]

[ QUOTE ]
the poker table is not the place to give advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup. Mason Malmuth wrote some great essays on this in "Poker Essays II." He points out that giving advice at the table can cause several bad things to happen:

1) Your opponents realize their mistake and tigthen up, reducing the number of mistakes they make (preflop, at least). They are now "accidentally" playing somewhat more winning poker.

2) The opponent may realize that's there more to the game than gambling and leave! Ack. The fish left and the table is now tougher.

3) The opponent may lose the gambling mood, causing the entire table to become tighter or have less fun. You want fish to have fun. Instead of criticizing their play, you should empathize with their losses and celebrate their crazy runner-runner wins.

The third one applies more to live poker than online, where the social aspect is immediately realized.

However, I think we need to have more social online poker. For example, if you could customize your avatar like in several of the single player computer games, you'd have a more social "fun loving" environment and thus looser fish.

[AncientPC]

There's a few fish I've befrended on PP, but there's one in particular that really gets my sympathy.

I don't know what his real job is as he's on just about 24/7 (I'm a college student waiting for fall semester so I have plenty of spare time) but he told me he's down $2000 for the week. He plays the occasional 2/4, but mostly 1/2 or NL 25.

He'll play any Ax and is very LAG, as such variance at his table is wack.

I felt sorry for him for a bit, but then lost $80BB to him in one session where my monster hands were marginally edged out by his (KJ boat beaten by KQ boat, pocket KK beaten by pocket AA) putting me on tilt (and thus a 3-4 day break from poker). I don't feel so sorry for him anymore. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[playerfl]

there was a guy like that in the past week i ran into. He said he was down $600 this week playing $1/$2. He was clearly on tilt since he was telling problems to total strangers and playing almost every hand to showdown. He was then dealt AA and I beat him with a king high flush, then he started typing obscenities at me. I just told him not to play angry, and then he left. If i contributed to him quitting for the day I probably saved him some money.

The thing is I am down $250 this week myself, and I feel its from bad beats from total newbies like that guy. I also know that if I want my money back it will have to come from people like that.

We have forums like this for giving and receiving advice and this is where it belongs, not at the table.

if people want to learn, the knowlege is out there and is cheaper than losing at poker.

[TripleH68]

Advice should only be given when it is asked of you. Period. And not at the table. In a live game it is distracting and destroys the atmosphere.

[Pot-A]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My point is this: while I would seldom go out of my way to help a fish, since doing so has a high probablity of costing me money, I did appreciate this man helping me out.

[/ QUOTE ] I largely agree, but the cost of educating trully bad players may not be as high it might seem. To continue the metaphor, you could consider it "throwing back the small ones." If they keep their money longer, it helps them yes, but they'll also be around longer for you to get some of it

[/ QUOTE ]
On that note, from a purely mercenary standpoint, I would rather play a table full of people who somewhat knew how to play (but were worse than me) than a table full of newbies. I find a little bit of poker knowledge is a dangerous thing, since the good people know what you have, but you don't what anybody else has. The newbies can be dangerous, since you have to show down the best hand to beat them.