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#21
08-10-2004, 05:24 PM
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Re: What I thought was an interesting hand
[ QUOTE ]
First let me just state what I did. I folded. [/ QUOTE ] **SPINNING IN MY GRAVE*** oh wait, i'm not dead yet **SPINNING IN MY OFFICE CHAIR*** Bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, horrible, bad fold. bad 
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#23
08-10-2004, 05:31 PM
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Re: What I thought was an interesting hand
[ QUOTE ]
BB checked, I bet out 2400 to test the waters, drunk guy reraised me to 5000, one player folded, and the next one to act immediately went all in. BB folded, and action was to me. Call or fold? I'll post what I did in a bit, but want to see people's opinions first. [/ QUOTE ] Mistake #1: You bet small into a big pot giving odds to any straight draw like Q10 or 910. You should bet big or check with the intention of raising all-in. Mistake #2: You are even thinking of folding top two here. Garland
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#24
08-10-2004, 05:43 PM
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Re: What I thought was an interesting hand
Hmm. I won't condemn this as harshly as other people, but I will say that I don't think I ever could have laid this down. You did describe the all-in player as a good player I think. I suppose if I was up against Phil Hellmuth (who, while aggressive, is *very* reluctant to put all his chips in without, or even with, a big hand). If I had that good a read on the all-in, I could lay it down.
I think there are plenty of good players (for example: me) who would have pushed here with AK or KQ given your weak flop bet and the essentially meaningless call from Sousey McScotchytilt. So, while the laydown turned out to be "good" in this situation, I would be careful about talking yourself into "big laydowns" too often. I mean, if you muck KK to a big raise preflop, every once in while you are going to be "right" and avoid AA, but barring extraordinary circumstances (like the one Sklansky describes in TPFAP), you are going to cost yourself chips in the long run mucking KK preflop...
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#25
08-10-2004, 05:53 PM
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Re: What I thought was an interesting hand
How is this a bad fold?
The poster went through the range of hands the all in player could of held(or thought they would hold)came to a decision on what he thought they had,decided he was beat and folded to a better hand,just because he layed it down this time doent mean they would lay it down next time.
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#26
08-10-2004, 05:56 PM
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Re: What I thought was an interesting hand
[ QUOTE ]
How is this a bad fold? The poster went through the range of hands the all in player could of held(or thought they would hold)came to a decision on what he thought they had,decided he was beat and folded to a better hand,just because he layed it down this time doent mean they would lay it down next time. [/ QUOTE ] I'm quite sure the poster did this extensive analysis after being shown two black 8's.
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#27
08-10-2004, 06:06 PM
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Re: What I thought was an interesting hand
AA- Maybe, but I didn't think so. With Drunk guy in preflop, why not raise AA preflop? Odds are very good drunk guy would call anyway, and there were lot of people that called the raise, so even if he didn't they were getting good money. I couldn't see someone playing AA like this.
AK- Possible, but I thought AK would have raised preflop too. You'll see some people do some strange things w/ AA/AK preflop, especially with a drunk LAG in the pot. I don't think you can discount this at that much simply because she didn't reraise preflop. [ QUOTE ] KQ- Maybe, but I didn't think KQ would go all in here. Its too vulnerable. I could see a reraise maybe, but immediate all in? This person had a sizable stack and had plenty to play around with and didn't need to push. [/ QUOTE ] It's vulnerable...that's exactly the reason you DO push. This or AK is actually what you'll see here more times than not. JJ is possible, but there is only one combination of JJ left, so its mathmatically unlikely. QT/T9 is possible but unlikely since they have to think that the drunk is calling. 88 is certainly a possibility, but mathmatically much less likely than all the other hands that you are killing combined. and you have 4 outs to catch. you should have mucked preflop if you were going to fold on this flop. You will routinely get shown AK/KQ here. -sossman
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#28
08-10-2004, 06:08 PM
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Re: What I thought was an interesting hand
LOL.
The predicament here sounds much like what happened to me at a Party Poker world speed poker satellite a few days back. Right after the mid-break I find myself in the BB with K-K! The SB is a large stack and he bets 10% of his stack (which is about 25% of mine). My take on this is that the SB is trying to muscle the pot. Of course, there is a distinct possibility that he has pocket rockets. Now, tell me this, what are the odds that the BB gets K-K and the SB gets A-A and this in a field where there has been zero bets before SB got his turn? I went all-in w/o hesitation and got whacked by pocket rockets. But 9 out of 10 times likely I would have won given a similar situation.
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#30
08-10-2004, 06:41 PM
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Re: What I thought was an interesting hand
Wow, I'm really kind of surprized at the reaction I got to posting the results, since usually when someone posts a thread like this it ends up that they lost to a flopped set or something like that. I thought the relatively happy ending to my story would cheer people up.
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] How is this a bad fold? The poster went through the range of hands the all in player could of held(or thought they would hold)came to a decision on what he thought they had,decided he was beat and folded to a better hand,just because he layed it down this time doent mean they would lay it down next time. [/ QUOTE ] I'm quite sure the poster did this extensive analysis after being shown two black 8's. [/ QUOTE ] Believe it or not, thats actually what I went through at the table. Not that it was all at once, but I was thinking about the flat calls and was wondering what people were flat calling my raise with. My conclusion was medium to low pocket pairs. As such I was on guard against trips, not to mention that my friend busted out in the tourny earlier in a similair hand, flopped top two pair versus flopped set. The conclusion of the table was that she got too aggresive too fast with her hand. Had she just flat called, she probably would have picked me up when I went all in to raise drunk guy. had she just reraised she probably could have picked me up when I pushed. But her sudden and quick all in, combined with the strange (IMO) preflop actions just set off alarm bells in my head.
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