Pocket queens - turn decision

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
ive show nothing but strength and now the BB leads and UTG raises.

[/ QUOTE ]

hmmm.. maybe. but guaging with my "Minimum Representation" theory, you, in your enemy's eyes have represented at minimum a AKo. by far this can be qualified as "nothing but strength".

had you raised a bet on flop, then you would have a minimum representation of AJ or KJ, then his turn raise would have meant more strength, indicating beating or at least par with a AJ.

so, no, you have not represented anything higher than two big cards since your action thus far in this three way pot post-flop is exactly at the same level of aggression as what you displayed pre-flop.

Thus (though knowing your results might make me bias), the "tricky" UTG's turn raise is not out of line for a AJ or KJ as he did have.

All of the above is not to say this is an extremely bad lay down, but it just isn't as sound and easy as you made it out to be.

Agree?

Kenny

[lancastrian]

Many thanks to those that have posted a reply so far. Judging by the mixed response this was not a clear cut decision by any means.
With regards to my comment that 'I have shown nothing but strength' that nykenny picked up on, I completely agree with you. As you say, my minimum representation could be a wide variety of hands. After all, I raised one UTG limper one off the button. I could be raising with a wide range of hands here and UTG could easily put me on two overcards to the board. While taking this into consideration, Im still not sure that this changes my fold to a call or 3 bet for the simple reason that I dont know my opponents play well enough.

With reagrd to the comment 'it just isn't as sound and easy as you made it out to be'. I dont agree, I didnt think this was an easy decision, hence my post.

Once again thanks to all, good to be part of the forum.

Graeme

[elysium]

hi lan
you say he's solidish....hmmmm. well lan, then he's solidish. you did well to fold. i like the tentative read you put on this opponent. of course, as you play more against him, your read will evolve, but not having any idea about the BB's possible action, nor correct pot odds, in spite of an as yet undeveloped read, you did the very best you could under those conditions, and correctly folded.

actually lan, in this spot, due to the unknown over-caller, you would need very compelling reasons to believe that the UTG was capable raising into opponents who are going to call with a high level of certainty. now if the BB gives some reasonably reliable indication that he will call, with a hand as strong as yours calling could be correct due to the amebatilliatory developmental stage of your read, and the average level of accuracy you're achieveing with new and evolving reads.

[NabO]

My also agrre with the ones who say that it's a good laydown for differents reasons:
1. even it's unlikely because he didn't reraise preflop the utg may hold AA or KK. The most probable hand he can hold is 88 ( the utg )
2. the small blind can easily have QT, J9, J8 and it that case you don'y have the proper odds to call to counterfeid.
3. If he had AJ can you really imagine to raise the turn in this spot against a very probable over pair???
4. If the utg is a good player you can't think i can play Kjo utg.
I think that the UTG must have a note on you as a good player able of good laydown because his play can't shown profit in the long run against a poor opposition because ALL the bad and average players will call the raise et beat his hand.
excuse my english.. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]