Pocket queens - turn decision

[lancastrian]

Lurker for several months, first post.
Opponents in this hand are UTG and BB. UTG is tight, solidish. Not played with him a great deal and therefore I've got little idea how tricky he can/cannot be. BB, Ive never played with before.

10/20 B&M

UTG calls, all fold to me 1 off the button with pocket Qs. I raise. BB and UTG both call.

Flop: Js 8d 5h

check, check and I bet. Both call.

Turn: 9c

BB bets, UTG raises. Hmmm

Ok so whats my move?
I'm of the opinion that this is completely player dependent (as with many decisions in this game). What does UTG have? My thoughts at the time were AJ, KJ, J9, 55, 22. JJ, 99, 88 are more likely to be UTG raises pre-flop (in general terms). If I knew this opponent well and knew he was capable of raising with a big J then I would of 3 bet it. I almost did 3 bet, but opted for the easy option and laid it down.

Without having played with this guy much I dont think I can call this raise. ive show nothing but strength and now the BB leads and UTG raises. Is this lay down totally weak-tight, or am I correct in making the decision based entirely on the player (or my lack of knowledge thereof). Or is this really an easy lay down indepedent of the individual player involved?

To conclude, I folded and the BB called the raise.

Both check the river and UTG's KJ is good. I would have won (this time!) but I still think given the conditions the lay down is OK.

Opinions on my play would be much appreciated.

Thanks all
Graeme

[anatta]

I would fold this, too. It looks like both players are telling you that one pair is no good. I guess UTG just made a great play (or we both fold too much!)

[SheridanCat]

I think you're looking for monsters under the bed here. I would expect to be shown AJ. While there is a lot of wiggle room in poker depending on your opponents, I can rarely think of a time when I'd lay this down like this.

Try looking at the hand from the perspective of the UTG player. He has top pair, good kicker. You've shown strength all along. He raises to neutralize your strength, and you fall for it.

Sometimes you'll be shown a set. When that happens, you just have to move on. But you won't usually be shown a set here.

Regards,

T

[Zele]

It's very player-dependent, but against the majority of 10/20 players today, this hand is worth at least a call-down. Don't forget you're also getting some probable outs (if your hand is no good) from your inside straight draw.

If you face another two bets on the river and haven't improved, lay it down.

[astroglide]

in many aggressive games A TEN will raise here. i'm not sure what the texture of yours is. i would have limp-reraised preflop here as well, but that also depends on the aggression factor.

[stoxtrader]

limp r/r from the CO with one caller with QQ? I would never think of this...I guess you would need a very good read the SB or BB is super aggressive. It would seem a shame to see this 4 handed for 1 bet, when a raise could knock out one or both of the blinds...

[astroglide]

oops, i didn't see the utg limp.

[Nightwish]

I disagree with those who say this is a bad laydown. There are 7.75 BB in the pot. You describe UTG as tight and fairly solid. I would say that the most likely hand of his that you beat is JT. I wouldn't expect him to play AJ or KJ like this because he would usually either bet or check-raise the flop. I'd say it's more likely that he has J9, 89, 88, or 55. Could also be 99, but I agree that he's more likely to raise with it. You're getting a little less than 4:1 and facing a possible reraise from BB. This is not a bad laydown.

[Rushmore]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't forget you're also getting some probable outs (if your hand is no good) from your inside straight draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

You also have potential outs when the board pairs and his two pair are counterfeited, a nice little perk to having the overpair.

[Rushmore]

Dude, I was a little worried about you there for a second.