Where good players have the edge in a Sit and Go.

[sabre170]

This play assumes the button will raise with lot of hands that can't stand a reraise. Is that a safe assumption?

Not if I'm on the button.

Sabre170

[memphis_aces]

I agree that the 56 are irrelevant here...they're suited, they're connectors and the only call you're going to get is a top pair which any suited connecting undercards stand about an equal chance of beating....

And yes....I agree that moves on the bubble are very wise as play tightens up substantially. I only disagree with risking your whole stack. If they will fold to a 50% of stack bet, why risk the whole thing? By this point in the tourney you should have a decent read of your opponent and should be able to make more precise bets to push them off pots. Risking most all of your stack (and your tourney) when you could at least leave yourself a leg to stand on if you get called just seems foolish here to me. Again...I'm not the best player in this place by ANY means, but your abundance of 4th place finishes seems to tell me I'm right.

There is another very similar discussion going on elsewhere about making 3BB raises when 2BB raises will have the same desired effect (inducing a fold).

[sabre170]

Also, might not the button be more alarmed by a min-reraise than a fast push? The fast push tends to look like the bluff it is.

Sabre170

[Jason Strasser]

50% of my stack at this point is 1500, he doubled the blinds to 800. If I raise to 1500, he has to call 700 into a pot of 2700. Which are incredible pot odds he should make with virtually any cards. I don't want him to call, and I know he wont call my all in without a top five hand.

Look at it from his view:

The short stack is about to have 2/3 of his stack blinded away. We are one away from the money. Why should I tangle with this tight player who has just pushed all in?

And with regards to my 4th place finishes, you need to understand two things. One first : 2.5 thirds. And, I do not have an "abundance" of 4th:

1sts ~ 16%
2nd and thirds ~ 13% each
4ths ~ 15%

Continue the flaming, I love it [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[memphis_aces]

Exactly.

I'd hardly suggest a min bet here or anything....but I've accomplished the same thing with 1/3 or maybe even 2/3 stack bets (depending on the my read). This way, if the guy comes back at me then I can fold and still have enough of a stack to maneuver my way back into the money (and then to first from there).

[Jason Strasser]

Sabre, yes, he could have AA. And yes, sometimes when I do this move he has AA. And I go out fourth, and I look dumb, and my friend who was watching me writes me an IM:

"WTF MAN YOU NOOB"

And I move on. But from your tournament experience, what range of hands can raise from the button in this situation, and what percentage of those hands are going to call my all in UNDER these circumstances. The Button is almost guaranteed money by folding to my all in! And he still has a playable stack.

Remember, if I was a maniac and I did this all the time, this move would not be profitable. However, this move is my edge--at least I believe.

[Jason Strasser]

Memphis,

I see your point, but I don't think you see mine. I'm making a play. If I decide to raise preflop, I am not going to make a half assed play. I've found what I believe is the perfect situation (thanks to my friend the bubble), to put someone is a spot where they can almost NEVER call me.

Really, if I GET called, I stand up and walk away. There is no doubt I'm soooooo far behind. I've forced him to call me with only the best of the best. And do you know how many times he has that hand?


Rarely. Not commonly enough to make this move less than very, very, very positive EV.

[memphis_aces]

Not flaming you, man..... You expressed your opinion, we're expessing ours. It's that simple. I also said that my plan was read-dependent....if you think that he would call a 50% of stack raise, then go 60 or 75....if you think he's going to call much more than that, then he's likely going to call your all-in (and likely with a hand that has you beat).

That's all I'm saying.

[memphis_aces]

Correct.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree.... I think you can (and I do) accomplish the same thing while putting less at risk. If you enjoy hitting the All-In button, then that's your perogative.....me, I'd rather stay in the tournament that 5% of the time that I may get called with this move.

We agree in principle...just not in methodology.

[BettnTibetn]

this works great untill the button shows up with KK AA etc