30-60 Hand

[Clarkmeister]

I have a lot of responses I want to make to the posts in this thread, I hope to get to them, but they may be spaced out. Anyhoo, for now, here are the results.

Final board [Th 5c 3s 8d] 5d. SB checked, I bet, he called. I flipped up Kc Td for top pair, and my hand was good. He then whipped his AQ face up at the pot which is how I know what he had.

So how did I play it? How did he play it?

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
Clarkmeister is not a checker and caller. If he raises, I fold.

If he calls the turn (unlikely), I check the river and hope that he checks behind. If he bets, I have a decent ace to show down, so I would call and hope that he had a busted draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

I find it interesting (though likely unremarkable) that the only "regular vegas player" in the thread would play the hand exactly as this actual "regular vegas player" in the SB played it.

Not that I'm saying you are loose passive preflop and loose/tricky postflop, I'm not. Just noting that you and this guy are both regular Vegas players and its interesting to me that you both would have taken the same line.

[Pipedream]

It's amazing how a hand so uninteresting can get 486948560945 responses.

Pipedream

[Paluka]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If an A comes on the river, I would check and call. If a Q comes I would bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

please explain why you take this line.

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I would take this line for a few reasons. When the ace comes, all of these things are true:

a) one of the most likely hands for my opponent to be holding is aces up.
b) I will now get called less often by a hand that I beat, because the A is such a scare card.
c) my opponent is likely to bet this river on a bluff after I show weakness with the A coming.

I think you will usually lose this hand when 2 bets go in on the river.
I bet when the Q comes as a pure value bet. If he has QT, oh well.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
It's amazing how a hand so uninteresting can get 486948560945 responses.

Pipedream

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Probabaly because this hand happens about 409890002x more often than quads against a full house, or set over set. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[Vehn]

with AT I would play the hand the way you played it. With KT like you had here I would raise the turn as its more likely he has 6 clean outs.

[Pipedream]

Yes good point. This is a pretty common scenario that probably does need some discussion.

Pipedream

[tolbiny]

"There are a lot of players against whom I can safely fold a small pair on the turn if they three bet me. Doesn't make them weak, trust me."
ture, but in this situation if clark can safely fold to your three bet then you had better start making it with AQ occasionally to pick up these pots.

BTW you get to many of the las vegas nights here in cleveland- i havent knowingly played with a 2+2er in two years (i had a little hiatus there for a while)

[tolbiny]

are you saying you would never three bet bluff against a strong opponent?

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
with AT I would play the hand the way you played it. With KT like you had here I would raise the turn as its more likely he has 6 clean outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's loose though so he isn't folding to a turn raise(and I'm not sold that a call of a raise on the turn with his AQ is loose). So if I raise the turn there are essentially two scenarios (discounting hands like 99):

1. He will always call with his 6-outer and fold if he doesn't improve on the river.
2. He will 3-bet me with his overpair.

Compare situation #1 to just collecting the same 2 bets turn-and-river combined with less risk. Situation #2 dictates that I at least call the 3-bet hoping to improve. I think having position dictates that the line I took is the right default line given this nothing board.