Poker Tip

[Cosimo]

I think obviously anyone who has read any 2+2 poker book knows that this is bad advice. So, the question is, "comment on why this Card Player newsletter made this tip, and what effect this tip will have on the game."

I think the intended message was "don't play garbage hands just because they are suited." The author, however, didn't bother to go into that detail, probably deeming such advice to be over the heads of their audience. One unfortunate side-effect of this view is that their more intelligent readers will see the flaw in their reasoning and might possibly come to disrespect all poker authors as "clueless academics."

Alternately, the author could be the sort of fuzzy-headed thinker that was unable to match what they write with what they mean; i.e. failing to understand that the words alone must convey their intent. (I've run into many people, even technical professionals, that don't understand the imprecision of their words. Ultimately, I think they are unable to tell the difference between the words on the paper and what's in their mind; they are unable to disconnect from their own understanding and look at writing from an impartial viewpoint.)

I'm going to ignore the theory that they wrote bad advice to intentionally keep the fish in the dark.

[MicroBob]

does this mean i can't limp-in with Axs from MP1 after 2 others limpers??

oh well, probably wasn't going to hit my flush anyway.

[Nottom]

So I guess I should stop playing crap like A9s and JTs.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Lori:

Here's a quote from page 38 of HPFAP.

Best wishes,
mason

[ QUOTE ]
If you are on the button, a lot of players are already in, and the pot is not raised, you can call with many additional hands. This includes those hands in Group 8 and even hands as weak as Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. The reason for this is the tremendous implied odds that you will be getting if the flop comes just as you would like it to come.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Cosimo:

My view's a little different.

I think what often happens is that the writer in these spots is looking for some simplistic advice that in general will be helpful to beginning players. The problem with this is that poker, and hold 'em in particular, is just to complex to give simplistic advice very often.

Thus you get well intentioned advice that will have the effect of hurting those relatively new players who it is targeted for. That's why I put it up.

Best wishes,
Mason

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Andy:

I agree with the point you are making. There's a huge difference between ATs and ATo in this spot.

On the other hand, if you were on the button and everyone passes to you, the difference between ATs and ATo is small.

Best wishes,
Mason

[Zeno]

[ QUOTE ]
•Poker Tip of the Month

[/ QUOTE ]


Is the title just as dull and silly as the contents?

Tip of the month? Why not Tip of the Day, or Week, or Hour, or Nano-second.

Here's a tip for Card Player. No tips. Not now, not ever.

I hope the boat sinks. There, I said it - and I'm glad.

Sue Me.

You are a troublemaker Mason. I want you kicked off the forum. Who do I complain to about your obnoxious posts?


-Zeno

[glen]

At ultimate bet you buy a subsciption to card player or a new putter for the same amount of ultimate points. I didn't understand this at all until I found out that they did actually start to sell it, and then I still diudn't really get it as they also put it online... .

[Ed Miller]

So I guess I should stop playing crap like A9s and JTs.

I'm not sure. I think maybe you are supposed to start playing A9o and JTo.

[roGER]

Here's an attempt at a partial defence of CardPlayer, god knows I've slagged the magazine off enough times in the past...

Three points:

1) Rightly or wrongly, I never play J7 suited unless I get a free play in the big-blind, or I'm in a game with a 2/3 small blind structure which means I can play anything in the small blind provided there's been no raise.

2) I suspect that all beginners and a lot of intermediates will actually lose money playing hands like Q-5 suited on the button. This is because:

a) They will tend to over-play the hand when there aren't enough callers (my understanding is that even 5 or 6 callers isn't really enough, 8 + is more like it).

b) They will tend to over-play the hand when (as so often happens) they "hit" the flop but don't realise that their hand is very vulnerable to superior kickers, two pairs, straights, etc. etc.

3) Even if the small minority of players capable of playing those hands profitably took the bad advice and NEVER played Q-5 suited and J-7 suited (except for in the big-blind), how much EV would they actually lose? Flushes and two pairs don't come up that often. Thus, except for a small minority of winning players, not playing these hands is a +EV tactic.

Having said all that, I agree with Mason's fundamental point, that proper tactics for a complex game like Hold 'Em are too sophisticated to be reduced to a short paragraph "tip" format, and the tip in question could have been worded much better.

- roGER