KK - Page 2

McGahee · #11 10-27-2005, 12:59 PM

More aggressive? No, the flop is fine. Good spot to raise a turn blank, but that's obviously not a blank.

bozlax · #12 10-27-2005, 01:03 PM

Did the 9 on the river somehow improve your hand that I've missed? If you donkbet this river it's because you think he 3-bet preflop, called the flop and then raised the turn with something that a) wasn't improved by the 9 and b) wasn't already ahead of you. That leaves, maybe, A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], and it would take a special kind of donk to play that hand like that. But, if you think you can put him on those exact two cards, then you should have 3-bet the turn for value (probably not a good idea, ergo you should have check-called the river).

imported_Reaction · #13 10-27-2005, 01:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
A similar hand:

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 2 folds, UTG calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, UTG raises, MP2 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls.

River: (7.75 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.75 BB

Should I have been more aggressive or is this ok?

[/ QUOTE ]

Flopped straights and TP w/flush should be betting this flop. Flushes calling. This is more like TP w/ a GS, possible 2 pair. Over a UTG range of limping hands, the AA (with the A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]) is still a favorite. Add in postion and a free card make this flop a 3-bet.

McGahee · #14 10-27-2005, 01:51 PM

We're not much of a favorite if at all vs. QJ on that flop.
And why the hell would you ever take a free card?

imported_Reaction · #15 10-27-2005, 02:51 PM

We are not favored over QJ. In fact, on this very coordinated board vs. a player above (slighlty) average I'd say AA are even to a slight dog. Without any indication though I am assuming a poor to average player - whoose range could include a lot of hands we are ahead of.

[ QUOTE ]
And why the hell would you ever take a free card?

[/ QUOTE ] cause I'm a tard. Not even sure why I added that. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Nikademus · #16 10-27-2005, 03:12 PM

On a board of 10[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] - 57.5% favorite over
QJ unless its the Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
In that case it's only 38.5% to win

@bsolute_luck · #17 10-27-2005, 03:46 PM

anybody fold that turn in hand #2. i really think that is the worse card possible. it's close to break even EV though if he only has QJ as you have ~8 outs to a better hand need ~6:1 and getting 7:1.

good discipline on the river though.

McGahee · #18 10-27-2005, 05:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
We are not favored over QJ. In fact, on this very coordinated board vs. a player above (slighlty) average I'd say AA are even to a slight dog. Without any indication though I am assuming a poor to average player - whoose range could include a lot of hands we are ahead of.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, they may not necessarily have TP with an OESD, but a poor player still usually has at worst a pair and/or a gutshot when he raises this flop. When he check-raises the flop, he's almost always leading the turn, so it's a great spot to raise a safe turn IMO.

McGahee · #19 10-27-2005, 05:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
anybody fold that turn in hand #2. i really think that is the worse card possible. it's close to break even EV though if he only has QJ as you have ~8 outs to a better hand need ~6:1 and getting 7:1.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought about that, but hero asked if he was aggressive enough, so he clearly had the best hand [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
Raising the turn is definitely bad. Call/fold is read dependant. It seems like I usually lose these when I call down, but the analytical side of me says that folding is weak because there aren't a whole lot of hands with a K that he should be raising the flop with.