KK vs. a big stack

[warlockjd]

To me this is an easy All IN

[sdplayerb]

By no means is this OBVIOUSLY the wrong play.
I will make one caveat, if this is like a $3 buyin or $11, I would agree to play it.
Any bigger I am folding as he has AA.

Try looking at it from the other guys side.
He has reraised, then been raised again. What do you think he is pushing in with? He likely (and correctly) should folded QQ on down.
So you are not probably a huge favorite. He has AA,QQ, maybe AK, maybe JJ. But likely threw away or called at some point wth QQ, AK or the maybe JJ.
Do you really think he pushed in with AQ? No.
So your statement "You're kings are probably a HUGE favorite banning an ace on the flop" holds no credence.

Also, if this were the first hand, I'd go all in. If it was at all early, I'd go allin.
But with 8,000 (now around 6,000) you have a big stack.
The chips you lose are extremely more valubale than chips you win.

I agree there are many bad players online. And 95% of the time I get all my chips in.
But big stack vs big stack with that many raises means one thing, KK or AA. You have KK, so he has AA.

You've probably never thrown away QQ either.

[incognito]

I did, in fact, reraise all in and was shown AA. I had a sneaking suspision that I was up against aces, but in the end I decided that, this being an online tournament, I could be up against anything. I think I made the wrong decision, results aside, and here's why:

[ QUOTE ]
blinds are at 30/60, I have about 8000 in chips,

[/ QUOTE ]

Had I folded after my re-reraise, I would still have had around 6000 in chips and a whole lot of time to win some more. I had no read on my opponent because I had just moved to the table, but perhaps I should have: the only other hand I had seen him play was the hand that I arrived during and he also had AA against KK. There were only about a dozen hands between those two incidents though, so I don't think it's enough to establish a confident read.

So, to sum up the good advice from others in this thread: early in the tournament, don't mess with a big stack. Even with KK.

[Eric P]

Contrary i have folded my kings before in live tournaments, and queens and AK also. My reasoning is simply that it's online and in a month of online you can see a year's worth of crazy hands. To think that this dude will likely fold QQ seems giving him too much credit. I know he is a big stack, but this is early, and a lot of times people get big stacks early by going all in and getting lucky a couple of times. You're statement of "if it's higher than 11 buy in he has aces" i just don't think that's true. The sunday 200 i agree, he will have aces 80+ percent of the time. And in my defence "kings are probably a HUGE favorite" is true, cause any ace puts you at 70 percent, and you probably don't want to go all in like that, ,but if he shows and AKk to you would you fold here? Probably not cause of how many chips you stand to gain. Saying that he can't have AQs or JJ or even TT doesn't seem right either i think you have to call all in here, i just don't see how you can get away from kings pre-flop to a guy you don't know ONLINE.

-if i know something about this guy my answer completely changes, and it is also very dependant on buy in (50+ i am much closer to folding)

[Gamblor]

I think a solid case can be made for folding given the play.

I've seen AA vs. KK a few times in NL action, and the action almost invariably goes the same way you described it.

First decision point, I call and see if an A appears. If not, I bet out, and if raised big, I consider a fold but not 100%.

The AA and KK will continue to make minimum-medium size raises and re-raises trying to keep you in the hand, hoping to get the rest of your chips on the flop. The KK will eventually tire of this and make a big raise. The AA then will either call and move in on the flop, or simply realize you're not laying it down and move in immediately. Both are trying to keep the other in the hand so as to maximize returns.

So you can safely narrow down, after 3 re-raises, to AK, AA, or KK. Any smaller pair than AA would have moved in long before a 3rd reraise. Even KK, perhaps. KK you're a wash, AA you're dead, and AK you're only a 7:3 favourite. And I think you'd even still be hard pressed to find someone willing to move in, on a reraise, of a reraise, with only AK. Even suited.

You have to consider survival. Even if you're against AK, is it worth the 30% chance he'll catch an A on the flop or hit a broadway and bust you?

When he realized you thought you were ahead, he went and put it in anyway.

So Second decision point, I very probably fold.
This is my case for folding.

[Copernicus]

Apologies for the detour...Al, something about your nickname that my attempt at PMing this doesnt recognize!

Re: Animals and Poker

No bigger a stretch than Dark Side and the Wizard of Oz!

I somehow doubt you got much reaction on the board from it though.

If Animals had been released at a time when "concept album" wasn't a 4 letter word, I think it would have been critically acclaimed instead of panned. I can't think of any sustained metaphors in rock as complete. It was also, IMO, Gilmour's best work. It showed he could rock as well as play those soaring melodies.

The Animals tour, putting the later spectacles aside, was musically their best tour IMO, closely followed by the end of the Meddle tour when they were playing evertying from Saucerful/Set the Controls to Echoes/Careful with that Axe to Dark Side. (I almost "flew" out of a box above the stage at Carnegie Hall '72, quite accidentally of course).

Here's to the "good old days" and what we can remember of them!