Common situation

[SA125]

I think it being raised pf gives you more incentive to do it and makes it the right play.

[flawless_victory]

youre acting like there is zero chance to win the pot without a showdown.
im saying raise and pound to win it, or at least knock ppl out who may have made something when you make a pair... i wouldnt raise to knock out someone w/ a bigger J and "clean" 2outs... that wouldnt be worth much...
i think raising or calling depends alot on game conditions so i certainly shouldnt have said this was "automatic"... clearly it is not.

[ihardlyknowher]

[ QUOTE ]
youre acting like there is zero chance to win the pot without a showdown.
im saying raise and pound to win it, or at least knock ppl out who may have made something when you make a pair... i wouldnt raise to knock out someone w/ a bigger J and "clean" 2outs... that wouldnt be worth much...
i think raising or calling depends alot on game conditions so i certainly shouldnt have said this was "automatic"... clearly it is not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Trying to bully 6 people out of a huge spot seems like an -EV play to me.

[ QUOTE ]
would you rather be heads up and pay three bets on the flop, or pay one bet and have 5 people on the flop? This looks like a call and I don't think it is very close.

[/ QUOTE ]
This statement is simply dead wrong, If a raise by the hero will increase the heros chances of winning this large pot by even a few percentage points than a raise is the right play. In this situation the hero should raise the flop, if he gets 3 bet so what, thats the risk the hero must take. You must understand that winning a large pot 36% of the time is much better than winning a large pot 32% of the time. These numbers are made up, but you get my point.

[Robb]

Any other opinions?

[vmacosta]

I like a raise. Firing at a pot with a big draw can never be too wrong and it will help define your opponents' hands. Furthermore, it would suck to let the guy with a 3 in there, have him make trips on the turn and end up putting in 2-3 BB to draw. Same goes if J or 9 hits, somebody hits their gutshot and you're stuck paying a bunch of big bets to draw to a hand that will no longer make the nuts. Plus, its fun and it partially disguises your hand since people will be more apt to think you just have top pair.

[stoxtrader]

nobody advocating a raise has swayed me. I still think a call is clearly correct.

[stoxtrader]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
would you rather be heads up and pay three bets on the flop, or pay one bet and have 5 people on the flop? This looks like a call and I don't think it is very close.

[/ QUOTE ]
This statement is simply dead wrong, If a raise by the hero will increase the heros chances of winning this large pot by even a few percentage points than a raise is the right play. In this situation the hero should raise the flop, if he gets 3 bet so what, thats the risk the hero must take. You must understand that winning a large pot 36% of the time is much better than winning a large pot 32% of the time. These numbers are made up, but you get my point.

[/ QUOTE ]

my opinion is that obi's original statement is correct, and the second quote is incorrect. I don't think it's close, but it does depend on the proclivity of your opponents to call 2 cold.

[Baulucky]

I like calling in this position.

Were I the button, I'd raise to try to get a 1/2 price card on the turn.

On the CO I mix it up with a tendency to raise if there are already several customers in the pot.