#11
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Re: JJ on a raggy flop, facing action.
[ QUOTE ]
What if CO is taking a free card here? [/ QUOTE ] After capping the flop?!? That doesn't sound like something that an opponent who "plays OK" would do. Also, if he was on the draw why would he force out the Button? |
#12
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Re: JJ on a raggy flop, facing action.
I had full intention of calling this down. I just wanted to run it by people.
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#13
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Re: JJ on a raggy flop, facing action.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] What if CO is taking a free card here? [/ QUOTE ] After capping the flop?!? That doesn't sound like something that an opponent who "plays OK" would do. Also, if he was on the draw why would he force out the Button? [/ QUOTE ] I could see a hand like A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] playing like that, or some equally monstrous draw. Cap the flop for value and check the turn through if it's a brick. Why would he raise the button out? Maybe he also has Hero's read and thinks that the Button is going nowhere fast and is willing and able to pad the pot. No reason to not give people a reason to call two cold if they will. (Also regarding the river, after thinking about it for a bit I think I like bet/folding it now, depending on how strong your read is.) -K |
#14
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Re: JJ on a raggy flop, facing action.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] What if CO is taking a free card here? [/ QUOTE ] After capping the flop?!? That doesn't sound like something that an opponent who "plays OK" would do. Also, if he was on the draw why would he force out the Button? [/ QUOTE ] My sentiments exactly. Ready for the showdown: A9 hearts. I think he thought all his outs were good, not discounting any even though I raised from sb. Either way, he played his hand ok. He had a ton of equity on that flop, and was right to get money in. When I lead the turn and he raised, I was happy to be HU but thought I might be behind. I was generally confused in this one and really surprised to find out that I was ahead until the river. That was the reason I was questioning myself so much after the hand. I went from thinking I was ahead and trying get bets in and protect pot, to thinking I was behind. |
#15
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Re: JJ on a raggy flop, facing action.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] What if CO is taking a free card here? [/ QUOTE ] After capping the flop?!? That doesn't sound like something that an opponent who "plays OK" would do. [/ QUOTE ] What's wrong with capping (for example) a nut-flush draw here and checking behind the turn? You've a smidgen of +EV on the flop 3-handed, so why not try to get the free card? [ QUOTE ] Also, if he was on the draw why would he force out the Button? [/ QUOTE ] To get a free card? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] |
#16
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Re: JJ on a raggy flop, facing action.
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What if CO is taking a free card here? There's a few draws he'd check behind with that we want to charge. [/ QUOTE ] If he capped as a free card play, he (over) paid for it. I think a turn check is fine. |
#17
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Re: JJ on a raggy flop, facing action.
[ QUOTE ]
What's wrong with capping (for example) a nut-flush draw here and checking behind the turn? You've a smidgen of +EV on the flop 3-handed, so why not try to get the free card? [/ QUOTE ] What's wrong in this hand is that he's not only capping the PF raiser (who also now bet/3-bet the flop) but, he's also capping in front of the 3rd player. He's putting in too much against continued aggression and his flop cap threatens to force out dead money. This situation isn't a "free" card (or even "cheap" card) play however - CO is putting in 2BBs on the flop! With no indication that he's going to be checked to on the turn. IMO, CO grossly overplayed his hand on the flop. I mean - why not put 1.5BBs in (flop + turn) and know that the Button is going to be around at showdown to pay you off. If there was 1 or two more players and the action went bet, raise, 3-bet - I'm fine with capping it there - but that's a value cap with a flush draw + overcards and also serves to tie one-pair players with 5 outs to the pot. Side Note: I think a great line for the CO here would've been to call the flop and then raise on the turn when he hit his nine. If he doesn't improve on the river he can always check-behind for the free showdown. |
#18
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Re: JJ on a raggy flop, facing action.
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Side Note: I think a great line for the CO here would've been to call the flop and then raise on the turn when he hit his nine. If he doesn't improve on the river he can always check-behind for the free showdown. [/ QUOTE ] Yea, but he won't hit that A or 9 all that often and I am three betting his ass if he raises on the turn without question. After the hand I understood his play. If I were him I would raise also. I was a little surprised too see that I was ahead, but I should have known I probably wasn't a favorite. When he raised the 9 on the turn I should have known it helped him and been able to narrow down his range even more. |
#19
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Re: JJ on a raggy flop, facing action.
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I was a little surprised too see that I was ahead, but I should have known I probably wasn't a favorite. [/ QUOTE ] I think a lot of this depends on how aggressive this particular player is. If you know that he's going to bet again on the turn with some weak hands I just think you missed a lot of value by not going for the checkraise. You were in a great position to trap the loose/passive Button for value. And if you check the turn and the Button folds for one bet then you can still check/call and play a WA/WB line. |
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