6 to the flop for 4 bets each. i have KK. will it hold up?

[Bob T.]

Nice hand. I think you played it well, and on party 1-2, who knows what they had.

[Blue Sky]

[ElSapo]

at what point in the hand, or to what amount of aggression can i fold KK on a board where it is not obviously beat, but probably is? and can i play it as aggressively as i need to on boards that are fairly coordinated?

At some point, well, you gotta start playing poker. It's tough to know for sure, but most players will let you know pretty clearly when you're beat.

In the example you gave, against the fewer opponents, you played it right. He bet on the turn I believe, which is uncommon after a flop raise from you on Party, but he never three-bets so I'd continue assuming I had the best hand. If he were to re-raise, I'd probably call it down, but with a bit of dread.

The thing is, if the full table takes the flop then yes, you likely will need to hit your set to take that pot down. But since 9 others are seeing the flop and you're something like 7-1 against hitting that third king, you're making money. And remember, sometimes those kings will win unimproved.

On a capped flop, or even raised, in that situation players are getting all the odds they need to try and hit that second pair, or go for their other draws. They're not necessarily making a mistake. But when they don't hit, your kings will drag a huge pot.

As for knowing when you're beat, like I said, you gotta play cards. Some players will bet into you on the end with nothing. I've been three-bet when the other guy caught middle pair. Sometimes players go nuts, sometimes they play it straightforward.

The kings are a big hand, and should be played as such. Knowing when you're beat, well, if I could tell you that all the time then I'd be posting this over in the mid-to-high stakes forum.

[Sleepy Weasel]

Just a newbie here, but I had a thought while reading this. Perhaps you can tell me if this line of thinking has any merit.

In this type of loose game, when you get this many people seeing a capped flop, isn't it highly possible that 2 or 3 of them are holding an ace, which would would mean they're all drawing quite thin (31-1) to beat the kings with one pair? Wouldn't that increase the odds that the kings will win unimproved?

I wouldn't like to take this kind of thinking too far (ie, letting it influence my betting), but it might at least give you some peace of mind pre-flop.

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
In this type of loose game, when you get this many people seeing a capped flop, isn't it highly possible that 2 or 3 of them are holding an ace

[/ QUOTE ]

No. Whether the game is loose or tight, it is no more likely that Aces will be dealt to your opponents pre-flop. They may be more likely to play Ace-rag but they are also more likely to play other trash like Q8o and 52s. Just because many players have limped in a loose game doesn't increase or decrease the # of Aces in your opponents hands.

[Sleepy Weasel]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In this type of loose game, when you get this many people seeing a capped flop, isn't it highly possible that 2 or 3 of them are holding an ace

[/ QUOTE ]

No. Whether the game is loose or tight, it is no more likely that Aces will be dealt to your opponents pre-flop. They may be more likely to play Ace-rag but they are also more likely to play other trash like Q8o and 52s. Just because many players have limped in a loose game doesn't increase or decrease the # of Aces in your opponents hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course it doesn't increase the chances that they're dealt an ace, but I guess I was just seduced by the fact that they're actually putting money in with their hands, so they might be better than average. Have to stop thinking that other players might at least have some logic behind what they're playing [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]. Thanks for clearing my head.