jason_t v. DeathDonkey

[KDawgCometh]

[ QUOTE ]
7 to 1 on the call and 3 BBs to get to showdown if you spike the turn? Not to mention that a Q/J might be outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

good point

[TakeMeToTheRiver]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
On bukkake's board the line is bet/3-bet/fold.


[/ QUOTE ]

Was this a joke? I don't know DD and barely know Jason, but I can't see this ever being right at a small- to medium-stakes game.

Personally, I bet/call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why am I joking? I fully expect a TPTK hand to play the flop/turn the same and raise the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Raising the river might happen. And you might even fold to a cap -- but why would you ever get there? How could you 3-bet this hand? Do you think you are going to make a better hand fold or get a call from a hand you can beat with any significant frequency?

My general point was that there can't be many hands where it is appropriate to 3-bet the river AND then fold to a fourth bet. Actually, I can't even think of one right now, but this is certainly not one of them.

Edit: AK is the only hand here that might call your 3-bet that you can beat. There are many better hands that call and beat you.

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
My genreal point was that there can't be many hands where it is appropriate to 3-bet the river AND then fold to a fourth bet. Actually, I can't even think of one right now, but this is certainly not one of them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Calling a 4-bet is retarded, but in a blind steal situation I wouldn't be surprised to see 1-pair hands call a river 3-bet.

[TakeMeToTheRiver]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My genreal point was that there can't be many hands where it is appropriate to 3-bet the river AND then fold to a fourth bet. Actually, I can't even think of one right now, but this is certainly not one of them.

[/ QUOTE ]


Calling a 4-bet is retarded, but in a blind steal situation I wouldn't be surprised to see 1-pair hands call a river 3-bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree -- calling a fourth bet is retarded. But 3-betting is not smart. You may get AK (and possibly a poorly-played KQ) to call. But you will also get called by KT, K9 and possibly a set. Given the range of hands, I can't see a third bet being +EV unless both players have been getting way out of line with each other. I don't think that is the case here -- but if it was the case, you probably have to call the 4-bet.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm really curious about what range of hands people think donkey can be taking a free showdown with.

BTW, Deathdonkey is probably gonna crucify me for this, but I fold preflop.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I should have folded preflop. One adjustment to consider while playing live is that the rake is capped quickly.

[Shillx]

Betting the river is no good against him. You aren't bluffing when he raises you on 4th and then you come out betting on 5th. Only a fool will raise the river with AA or AK or whatever. If you get raised, you are going to lose so that line serves you no purpose.

I played a hand like this against Entity a while ago and I should have checked behind on the river. I would highly consider checking behind here (against a good player) with AA or AK since you shouldn't be paying off with anything less. The best reason to bet is to induce a check/raise bluff, but that isn't happening when the 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] hits.

DD will bet AA and AK again on the river 100% of the time so I like a check/raise.

Brad

[DeathDonkey]

I told Jason I think bet/call or bet/fold are better than checkraising, but now I don't know. I definitely think now that bet/fold is superior to bet/call. It has been interesting seeing what my image is thanks to that insane 4/8 Wynn game though :P

-DeathDonkey

[ClaytonN]

[ QUOTE ]
I definitely think now that bet/fold is superior to bet/call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't know if this has been clarified in other threads, but against another known tpter on this board texture what is your range of raising hands on the end?

FWIW the way you've played this hand I would set up a river checkraise, but I'm more along the variety that might groan and call the third bet. Which might be a leak.

[Kailia Marie]

Hi Jason,

I think it's best that you check this turn.

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Kailia

[Trix]

I´ll pretend like it was suited, else preflop seem very sucky to me.

Check-raise, he has a legit hand pretty often when he raise the turn here and he will probably just call if you lead.