Is this the "Noble Cause"...?

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Bush, his henchmen, and his followers (are you one of them?),

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No, I'm not a Bush supporter or a Republican (or a Democrat either). Making statements comparing the new Iraqi const. to Iranian theocracy is not a productive means of rational discussion however. And you don't need to be a Bushie to see that.

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BTW-- I recall the constitution of USSR was actually an amplified version of the US.

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Which just goes to show that making sweeping assumptions based on the written words alone is wrong.

[SheetWise]

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Which just goes to show that making sweeping assumptions based on the written words alone is wrong.

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Agreed, of course. I am not as worried about corruption in practice as the corruptibility of the process.

[SheetWise]

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Making statements comparing the new Iraqi const. to Iranian theocracy is not a productive means of rational discussion however. And you don't need to be a Bushie to see that.

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On the other hand, an anti-Bush / anti-US sentiment would help you presuppose it.

I feel this thread completely misses the point of our invasion/take-over/liberation... whatever you want to call it. The bottom line is this:

Now that Saddam and a majority of his regime are gone... the Iraqis can have these types of discussions without fear of being shot in the streets. How nice is it that Joe Blowajian can now post on 2+2 about his political thoughts without being hunted down like an animal.

Anyone arrogant enough to think a person... much less an entire country could draft a "perfect" and balanced system within 6 months is suffering from a case of Michael Moorism... other-wise known as delusions of self grandjor

BTW... contrary to popular belief... we learned a lot as a country and as a government with our involvement in Iran. That could not have been FUBAR'ed any more if we had tried (which many think we did).

The bottom line is that as America (ns) we don't always have all the answers and we definately aren't winning popularity contests these days. However, we are trying to give a hopeless nation some hope.

I agree it's a large price to pay... but is anyone else upset that you have to go to page 32 of the E section of your newspaper see the good we are doing in Iraq?

[Cyrus]

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I recall the constitution of USSR was actually an amplified version of the US.

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What on Lenin's Tomb are you talking about ??

[bobman0330]

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What on Lenin's Tomb are you talking about ??

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Chapter 7: THE BASIC RIGHTS, FREEDOMS, AND DUTIES OF CITIZENS OF THE USSR
Article 39. Citizens of the USSR enjoy in full the social, economic, political and personal rights and freedoms proclaimed and guaranteed by the Constitution of the USSR and by Soviet laws. The socialist system ensures enlargement of the rights and freedoms of citizens and continuous improvement of their living standards as social, economic, and cultural development programmes are fulfilled.

Enjoyment by citizens of their rights and freedoms must not be to the detriment of the interests of society or the state, or infringe the rights of other citizens.

Article 49. Every citizen of the USSR has the right to submit proposals to state bodies and public organisations for improving their activity, and to criticise shortcomings in their work.

Officials are obliged, within established time-limits, to examine citizens' proposals and requests, to reply to them, and to take appropriate action.
Persecution for criticism is prohibited. Persons guilty of such persecution shall be called to account.
Article 50. In accordance with the interests of the people and in order to strengthen and develop the socialist system, citizens of the USSR are guaranteed freedom of speech, of the press, and of assembly, meetings, street processions and demonstrations.

Exercise of these political freedoms is ensured by putting public buildings, streets and squares at the disposal of the working people and their organisations, by broad dissemination of information, and by the opportunity to use the press, television, and radio.
Article 51. In accordance with the aims of building communism, citizens of the USSR have the right to associate in public organisations that promote their political activity and initiative and satisfaction of their various interests.

Public organisations are guaranteed conditions for successfully performing the functions defined in their rules.
Article 52. Citizens of the USSR are guaranteed freedom of conscience, that is, the right to profess or not to profess any religion, and to conduct religious worship or atheistic propaganda. Incitement of hostility or hatred on religious grounds is prohibited.

In the USSR, the church is separated from the state, and the school from the church.

Article 54. Citizens of the USSR are guaranteed inviolability of the person. No one may be arrested except by a court decision or on the warrant of a procurator.

Article 55. Citizens of the USSR are guaranteed inviolability of the home. No one may, without lawful grounds, enter a home against the will of those residing in it.

Article 56. The privacy of citizens, and of their correspondence, telephone conversations, and telegraphic communications is protected by law.



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-1977 Constitution at http://www.departments.bucknell.edu/...02.html#chap07

[MtSmalls]

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How nice is it that Joe Blowajian can now post on 2+2 about his political thoughts without being hunted down like an animal.


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Setting aside the average Iraqi doesn't have the infrastructure to make a post on 2+2, I have to doubt that this is true.

The average Iraqi is probably MORE afraid for his life today than 3 years ago. Now he has at least three major powers to try to avoid offending, has to avoid the daily suicide bomber/attack on/by US troops, find food and clean water for his family, desperately avoid becoming sick, since he is unlikely to recieve medical attention ahead of the wounded and dying, etc, etc, etc.

No constitution is going to be perfect, heck ours still isn't after 200+ years of trying. And as at least one poster pointed out, many a constitution-like document has been drafted by a government, then thoroughly ignored. But codifying the religious/moral authority of the mullahs and Sharia law isn't a promising start toward providing freedom for the average Iraqi...