How Much Do You Bet to Balance Implied & Pot Odds?

[Ghazban]

Well, in your example, he has no implied odds because we most certainly will not pay off the flush (as he turned his cards over and we know he has it).

[TheWorstPlayer]

If you see his hand, you don't have to worry about implied odds because if he hits his hand, you'll just fold. So you only have to give him worse than 4:1 pot odds. The only time implied odds comes into it is if you're uncertain of his hand, so you'll have to be willing to pay off some of the time when he hits it.

Therefore, you have to bet for his hand RANGE, but just one particular hand. So, for instance, it might be worth laying only 3:1 odds if that means that he will be willing to call with 10:1 shots as well as with 4:1 shots. Even though he'll be making money when he has the flush draw, he'll be losing more than that when he calls with just a gutshot. If betting 4:1 would prevent him from making money with the flush draw, but would cause him to fold the gutshot, then you should bet less. See.....it all depends!

[foldem]

he paid 8 to win 17.5.

Edit: link to similar thread

[-Skeme-]

If you give him incorrect current odds, it depends on his implied or effective odds. How much would you put into the pot if a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] came, assuming you didn't know he had 73[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]?

I suck at math.

[kingofswing]

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The maximum he will incorrectly call.

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This is intuitively correct, but how much is 'incorrect'? For example, if we were to bet 1/3 pot on the flop, the opponent is getting 1:4. He would be incorrect to call this by virtue of expressed pot odds. But if we were planning to bet 1/3 pot again on a non-[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] turn, then he would be correct to call the flop bet based on implied pot odds. We bet 3 on the flop, he calls. On the turn the pot is (9.5+3+3) 15.5. Non-heart turn falls. We bet 5, he calls. River is (15.5+10) 25.5. Heart comes on river. The opponent has paid in a total of 8 to win 25.5, which is a little better than 1:3 implied odds. Since he was a 1:2.5 dog to make his flush in 2 cards, he's a long-term winner calling these bets.

Isn't he? So betting 1/3 pot on both flop & turn can't be right?

So I guess my question is, how much would he be incorrect to call based on implied odds?

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You're right because he's 4.1:1 to make it with one card and better than 2.5:1 to hit it with two cards. So the result is that betting 1/3 pot each time, giving him 4:1 in each case, is a bad play. The answer to your question is less math and more instinct -- basically poker and it's finest.

You should bet into the pot so that he does not have odds to call. As much as he will call is right, but there's more.

Now the decision is on him and he is CORRECT to call so long as he believes that he has implied odds. For instance, if a pot were 'X' and you bet 'X', obviously he doesn't have the odds to call that, but if he concludes that if he hits his flush he can get you to call a '4X' bet, well the implied odds are great. It's +EV for him.

Now the decision is essentially back to you, because if that flush card comes you have to figure out whether he has that or is bluffing a flush with middle pair.

If he knew you would lay down every time another heart came, then obviously he has no implied odds, but the reality is that often in a multiway pot calling a pot sized bet with a flush draw is wrong for pot odds, but implied odds make it okay because if you hit your flush you only have to get each person in the pot to pay off a smaller bet to make it +EV.

No one lays down TPTK every time a flush card comes because not everyone is on a flush draw, so there are always some implied odds. The flush drawer just needs to decide whether you will fold a 3 flush board or see the hand through. And the guessing begins...