I have 53s and cold-call 4(!) times: This one's not pretty

[dantheman_05]

dont fold preflop

just keep it simple against the lags - ram jam your good hands.

i have no clue what UTG has. his stats say AA but his play says 99.

i think you are gonna be behind here sometimes and there are a lot of cards that can fall which will kill your hand. in this situation you have to try and knock ppl out of the hand by betting and raising. you should lead the flop so UTG will raise. if co 3 bets, then u cap. lead the turn no matter what so they cant check through for a freec card and you may be able to raise again. i think co is more likely to be on a big draw here so i really want to get UTG to fold since he has AA and can counterfeit your hand.

[private joker]

I'm folding the turn the first time it's two back to me. CO's play here can almost always beat bottom 2 pair. Against a straight (64, an odd hand to play) you have 4 clean outs to a boat, but I think you're up against 77 more often -- it's a more reasonable hand to cold-call PF with, and the action indicates it. Even with your read on him being weird and LAGgy, he's entitled to have 77 and play it this way; against that hand, of course you're drawing dead.

I think you're ahead of UTG's overpair, but your hand can easily be counterfeited and I don't want to spend 4BBs on the turn to see a 7/9/A/K pop out on the river and then have to spend a lot more to show down. When I see how UTG and CO want to go to war in this hand, I think I lay down -- it's just going to cost too much to see 75s, 64s, or 77/33/55 take down the pot at the end.

[Nick C]

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I'm folding the turn the first time it's two back to me. CO's play here can almost always beat bottom 2 pair. Against a straight (64, an odd hand to play) you have 4 clean outs to a boat, but I think you're up against 77 more often -- it's a more reasonable hand to cold-call PF with, and the action indicates it. Even with your read on him being weird and LAGgy, he's entitled to have 77 and play it this way; against that hand, of course you're drawing dead.

I think you're ahead of UTG's overpair, but your hand can easily be counterfeited and I don't want to spend 4BBs on the turn to see a 7/9/A/K pop out on the river and then have to spend a lot more to show down. When I see how UTG and CO want to go to war in this hand, I think I lay down -- it's just going to cost too much to see 75s, 64s, or 77/33/55 take down the pot at the end.

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I understand what you're saying, but, for better or worse, I didn't have enough respect for CO to find such a fold, though I certainly was worried about 77.

I also thought UTG might not have much respect for CO either (probably very few players at the table did), which was a consideration.

That said, I wasn't feeling very comfortable at all, and the river could have been uncomfortable as well, if UTG hadn't finally slowed down.

Anyway, I hoped UTG didn't have 77/99 (I doubted he did, but the thought crossed my mind), and part of me just wished he'd realize he was drawing, although I didn't do anything during the hand to bring him to this conclusion.

[Jake (The Snake)]

Preflop is a very easy call.

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Maybe I should have check/3-bet the flop (I did plan to checkraise). Part of the reason I decided not to is that I wanted to see what UTG would do (and I wouldn't be that opposed to his calling with, say, AK), but in retrospect I'm not sure how much value this has, really.

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Well I think UTG's hand is pretty easy to read. He has something good, probably an overpair or big broadway, what else would he raise UTG? Anyway, I don't like your reasoning for not 3-betting... why do you want to see what UTG does? CO is clearly a maniac postflop and it's very likely you have the best hand... I couldn't imagine a better scenario than you got to raise for value.

[DeeJ]

I actually like it. I think you'll see JJ QQ KK and AA played like this often enough to call it down. Probably UTG has an overpair, but CO might be lagging it all the way too.

[Nick C]

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Preflop is a very easy call.

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Maybe I should have check/3-bet the flop (I did plan to checkraise). Part of the reason I decided not to is that I wanted to see what UTG would do (and I wouldn't be that opposed to his calling with, say, AK), but in retrospect I'm not sure how much value this has, really.

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Well I think UTG's hand is pretty easy to read. He has something good, probably an overpair or big broadway, what else would he raise UTG? Anyway, I don't like your reasoning for not 3-betting... why do you want to see what UTG does? CO is clearly a maniac postflop and it's very likely you have the best hand... I couldn't imagine a better scenario than you got to raise for value.

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Well, just to defend my thinking at the time, here goes:

If UTG calls the flop, I can plan on leading the turn, hoping he'll call again. (And maybe I can think about going for a checkraise, if an ace or king falls, although it occurs to me that there is this complication: UTG might also try to checkraise one of those cards, given that CO is a postflop maniac.)

If UTG 3-bets the flop, I can check again on the turn instead.

However, to be honest, I'm not really that comfortable with my flop play in this hand.

What I was doing was risky, as there was a good chance (I felt at the time) that UTG had no respect for CO. So, while my cold-calls were disguising my hand, they were also inviting UTG to keep pushing, and, eventually, I wasn't sure if I wanted him to, anymore.

[Jake (The Snake)]

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What I was doing was risky, as there was a good chance (I felt at the time) that UTG had no respect for CO. So, while my cold-calls were disguising my hand, they were also inviting UTG to keep pushing, and, eventually, I wasn't sure if I wanted him to, anymore.

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Bingo. Since UTG is TAGish, you should assume that he knows CO is a maniac postflop... therefore he is almost certainly going to be 3-betting with an overpair.

I don't want to get stuck in a situation on the turn where UTG and CO keep raising each other and I am stuck between with what could very well be the best hand. I'd like to take control right on the flop. There's pretty much no way we are behind UTG, so we wouldn't even be scared if he caps. If CO caps he could be ahead, but since he is so aggressive we can still raise any turn anyway. My 2c anyway.

[coffeecrazy1]

I would most likely fold preflop...but not 100% sure about that...would depend.

However, there would be nothing to stop me from jamming on the flop. A c/r here is foolhardy, in my opinion, because this is a drawing flop for everyone except you. Make it as expensive as possible for these guys to see the turn.

Then, on the turn, lead out again. Lots of people with draws will peel one off on the flop, but the big bet on the turn will make them give up.

I would jam the flop as hard as possible, lead the turn, check/call the river(crying). You may still be beat, but at least you were slamming it with the best hand. Just calling down with a good hand makes me feel weak-tight, and that is where I play my worst poker. Just for psychological reasons alone I would have played this very strong.

[Nick C]

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There would be nothing to stop me from jamming on the flop. A c/r here is foolhardy, in my opinion, because this is a drawing flop for everyone except you. Make it as expensive as possible for these guys to see the turn.

Then, on the turn, lead out again. Lots of people with draws will peel one off on the flop, but the big bet on the turn will make them give up.

I would jam the flop as hard as possible, lead the turn, check/call the river(crying). You may still be beat, but at least you were slamming it with the best hand. Just calling down with a good hand makes me feel weak-tight, and that is where I play my worst poker. Just for psychological reasons alone I would have played this very strong.

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If I had led the flop, I think the action would have gone like this:

Hero bets, UTG raises, UTG+2 folds (I'm guessing here), CO 3-bets, Hero caps, UTG calls, CO calls.

That would have led into this turn:

Hero bets, UTG calls (or maybe raises), CO raises ...

While I'm going through these possibilities, here's a likely sequence if I check/3-bet the flop:

Hero checks, UTG bets, UTG+2 calls, CO raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG caps (or maybe just calls), UTG+2 folds, CO calls (or caps, depending on what UTG did).

Then, on the turn, I would probably lead, and then I'm thinking UTG would slow down, and then CO would raise, and I could just call if I decided to.

I guess what I'm saying is, given the cards held by the players involved (which of course I didn't know at the time), and given that CO is a postflop maniac, I think the hand would have been uncomfortable no matter what line I took.

However, being more aggressive on the flop could have led to UTG slowing down more quickly, which could have gotten me to showdown more cheaply, if I decided that was best.

In any event, in prior hands at the table, no one had played back at CO quite like UTG did in this hand (in the hand I mentioned where I felt CO overplayed TT with an ace on the flop, he bullied his opponent with AQ into calling down), so it was hard for me to interpret CO's continued aggression.

[billyjex]

any of you guys folding this preflop really need to reconsider. yes, UTG's hand has us crushed. we are behind. however, getting 7 to 1 we can call and try to flop a monster or a strong draw and win a huge pot. when we don't hit it's very easy to get away from.