I have 53s and cold-call 4(!) times: This one's not pretty

Nick C · #1 08-02-2005, 11:29 PM

I didn't plan to play the hand this way, but the action was different than I anticipated, and I got confused. Help me find a raise or a fold (or both), I guess.

UTG is 19/5/2.1 after 59 hands.

CO is 22/13/6.3 after 45 hands. My note on him at the time read something like "a LAG who feels entitled to win," after he complained in the chatbox when his J8s (which flopped top two) got outdrawn. His preflop numbers don't suggest a range as much as you might think, either, as once when he held 32s, his reaction to having the action come 3 bets to him preflop was to cap. (He won that hand with bottom pair.) The best starting hand I have for him in PT is TT (which is much better than anything any other starting cards he took to showdown), which in my opinion he overplayed with an ace on the flop and then a jack on the turn. Postflop, he likes to bet and raise, as the 6.3 number indicates, although he did slowplay the J8s I mentioned earlier.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG raises, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, 3 folds, CO calls, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (8.33 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, UTG+2 calls, CO raises, Hero calls, UTG 3-bets, UTG+2 folds, CO caps, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Maybe I should have check/3-bet the flop (I did plan to checkraise). Part of the reason I decided not to is that I wanted to see what UTG would do (and I wouldn't be that opposed to his calling with, say, AK), but in retrospect I'm not sure how much value this has, really.

Looking it over again now, I really don't like my flop play very much.

Turn: (10.66 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, CO raises, Hero calls, UTG 3-bets, CO caps, Hero calls, UTG calls.

At the point when it first came back two to me on the turn, I was thinking I didn't want to slow UTG down if he just had an overpair. But an overpair would have 8 outs against me, which could be a consideration. Anyway, though, I was also beginning to worry about what CO might have.

River: (22.66 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, CO bets, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 25.66 BB

Yuck. Help me out.

TripleH68 · #2 08-02-2005, 11:46 PM

I am not clear on why you want to check-raise this flop.

Wouldn't you be better served by betting into the preflop raiser? If he holds an overpair and raises you will have options on how to play the rest of the hand based on what the two remaining players do...

Nick C · #3 08-02-2005, 11:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I am not clear on why you want to check-raise this flop.

Wouldn't you be better served by betting into the preflop raiser? If he holds an overpair and raises you will options on how to play the rest of the hand based on what the two remaining players do...

[/ QUOTE ]

This may in fact be a better plan.

My thinking at the time was that he was more likely to have overcards than an overpair, and I wanted to get an auto-bet out of him. (Although my hand is vulnerable, a flop sequence that begins with a bet and a call won't protect my hand against gutshots. And I don't think any other hand with decent outs against mine is going anywhere.)

So, right or wrong, that's what I was thinking, and my initial flop plan was to checkraise for value.

SackUp · #4 08-03-2005, 12:12 AM

i fold this preflop.

UTG isn't raising utg with crap with those stats and CO is not cold calling with crap with those stats. I don't know if 4 to the flop is enough for me to call in the bb with 53s.

if you check the flop then you need to 3 bet there. I would probably bet out and 3 bet a raise to protect your hand. Make the others call 2 cold.

TripleH68 · #5 08-03-2005, 12:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
my initial flop plan was to checkraise for value.

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Let me add that my response may have been tainted by the results of the hand.

The way you played it is interesting. You are almost surely ahead of UTG. By making your hand look like a draw you stand a chance to win a pretty big pot...and it may be worth the risk as a big pp or flush draw is not going anywhere. Hmmmm.

53s is one of my favorite hands, but that is a story for another time.

toby · #6 08-03-2005, 12:20 AM

Preflop call is a little thin. Once the betting gets going on the flop, do everything you can to win the pot, not build it. Bottom two pair is very vulnerable to being counterfeited. So 3-bet it when it's 2 to you on the flop, or do it on the turn when your two pair are still good, and you're a bigger favorite against a flush draw. River kind of sucks, but pot is so big it's a call anyway.

Nick C · #7 08-03-2005, 12:28 AM

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CO is not cold calling with crap with those stats

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For what it's worth, CO was very erratic.

He did, for instance, cap preflop with 32s during an earlier hand, when the action came three bets to him.

His stats (with the exception of the 6.3 postflop aggression factor) are possibly the most deceptive stats I've ever posted with a hand.

Nick C · #8 08-03-2005, 12:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The way you played it is interesting. You are almost surely ahead of UTG. By making your hand look like a draw you stand a chance to win a pretty big pot...and it may be worth the risk as a big pp or flush draw is not going anywhere. Hmmmm.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is in fact something that was going through my mind during the hand. I thought UTG would take a raise from me a lot more seriously than he'd take a raise from CO.

On the other hand, if by some chance he'd take, for instance, a turn check/3-bet seriously enough to fold, say, QQ, well, that is something I'd like for him to do (unless I'm drawing versus CO, which was far from certain in my mind).

I think you're probably right, though, that a big pocket pair is not going anywhere.

hobbsmann · #9 08-03-2005, 12:37 AM

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i fold this preflop.

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This is way too tight. With that many people seeing the flop I call with this hand in the BB everytime.

aK13 · #10 08-03-2005, 02:31 AM

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Preflop call is a little thin.

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7:1 no F'ing way I'm folding this preflop.