JJ Flop Decision

Yes, have read lee jones, no didnt like book.

backdoor str8?
At this beginning level, its not a great idea to start thinking about chasing backdoor str8s for an out. This out is so very remote, its easier for beginning players to leave the backdoor potential alone because it will tighten up their calls. He needs a jack, and that may even be a dirty out that nails someones str8...This hand is a clear fold, hes drawing to a backdoor str8 (very remote), and a dirty jack...
cdl
CDL

[deception5]

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backdoor str8?
At this beginning level, its not a great idea to start thinking about chasing backdoor str8s for an out. This out is so very remote, its easier for beginning players to leave the backdoor potential alone because it will tighten up their calls. He needs a jack, and that may even be a dirty out that nails someones str8...This hand is a clear fold, hes drawing to a backdoor str8 (very remote), and a dirty jack...
cdl
CDL

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The level is irrelevant. It's worth consider all outs regardless of how remote as long as you don't overvalue them.

[Delzek15]

Easy... Call flop getting 9 to 1 and then fold the turn UI. Nothing to go crazy over.

[TomBrooks]

Fold.
Others explained why.

[silkyslim]

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This is helped by the fact you have the J , so any jack which comes doesn't complete a flush. Yeah, I call this and fold the turn UI.



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I was a bit worried about the fact a Jack would coordinate the board a bit, devaluing my hand as far as implied odds.

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Why are we dreaming about a jack coming? lol "jack coming"

I agree it should be considered but it shouldnt ever be a decsion making factor in a hand odds vs equity is almost never close enough to consider a backdoor draw. Yea it adds a little value but dont count on it. Basically I agree wioth what your saying but dont want it to be overvalued either and I think it was in aabove post...
cdl
cdl

[Nilbud]

OK, OK...I get it!! I'll never call a flop like that with jacks again!!!!

I promise promise!

:-)

[Eeegah]

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I agree it should be considered but it shouldnt ever be a decsion making factor in a hand odds vs equity is almost never close enough to consider a backdoor draw. Yea it adds a little value but dont count on it. Basically I agree wioth what your saying but dont want it to be overvalued either and I think it was in aabove post...

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There's no difference between a backdoor draw and any other draw. We can caluclate the chance of it coming through just like every other draw, and we assign them about 1.5 outs. Note that this is the same as a single overcard and less than trying to spike a set or trips. It's a weak draw, sure, but we still count those outs even if we likely won't rely on them solely in our decision.

In this hand, we have both a backdoor straight and flush, and if we factor in our Jacks we have five pre-discount outs. Of course we do need to discount a bit, but I don't know if it's as drastic as you think it is. If UTG+1 is as straightforward as Hero thinks then I doubt he'd bet less than a made hand; in other words, he likely has an A or Q and our flush, straight or set would be good. SB could have nearly anything, and so a raise would likely fold him out, ensure we have almost a full five outs and perhaps buy us a cheap card on the turn.

Then again we're getting 9 to 1 here, and if we raise we're giving ourselves less. I think raising and folding are probably breakeven plays here.