monotoneeeeeeee

[chief444]

I have no real issue with a flop raise. Actually I probably would have. But not raising the turn after the flop call is criminal.

[Padawan Learner]

Chief:

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But not raising the turn after the flop call is criminal.

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Most assuredly. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Paxosmotic]

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Personally, I would have raised the flop attempting to make a smaller diamond or a straight draw fold saving you the pot in case another diamond or card that completes a straight hits.

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The reason you wait to raise the turn is that a flush draw drops in equity from 35% to 18% while the pot odds you're able to offer remain at 4.5:1.

[baronzeus]

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I have no real issue with a flop raise. Actually I probably would have. But not raising the turn after the flop call is criminal.

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Do I go to jail? Can I pass go? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[I am fish]

I feel you. After thinking about it, I'd agree there is more value in waiting until the turn to attempt a raise simply because even if you raised the flop you'd still have to fold the turn if I diamond came a decent percentage of the time because of the prospect of having to call two big bets if someone does have the diamond, even though there is fairly good chance no one has a diamond especially if you got the diamonds to fold.

So I assume you are all checking and folding the turn if a diamond comes?

[Paxosmotic]

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I feel you. After thinking about it, I'd agree there is more value in waiting until the turn to attempt a raise simply because even if you raised the flop you'd still have to fold the turn if I diamond came a decent percentage of the time because of the prospect of having to call two big bets if someone does have the diamond, even though there is fairly good chance no one has a diamond especially if you got the diamonds to fold.

So I assume you are all checking and folding the turn if a diamond comes?

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Nah. We have position so we're going to see what SB has. He's just as scared of a diamond as we are if he's not holding one. If one flops and it's checked to us, it's tempting to bet, but that opens us to the oh so clever check-raise. If a diamond falls on the turn I probably meekly check behind and bet the river OR call down to aggression. Our hand, while not enormous, does offer us almost proper odds to draw to a full house on the river, which we can probably make up if Villain leads again. Even if we miss I call one last bet because there's going to be a better than 1 in 10 chance we're good here.

[I am fish]

What about the other four players in the pot?

[Chubbers]

Before reading this post i would have raised on the flop but reading this makes sense to wait till the turn. If you then raise on the turn you fold to a re-raise right?

[baronzeus]

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Before reading this post i would have raised on the flop but reading this makes sense to wait till the turn. If you then raise on the turn you fold to a re-raise right?

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No, because 2 pair can become a full house [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Budget Boy]

I would raise the flop here. I understand the points being made about waiting for the turn, but I think a flop raise knocks out the J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or 10 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Also, if it gets 3-bet by the sb, I can get away from the hand on the turn if I don't spike a Q or 7.