2 Controversial hands from the WSOP ME

[West]

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but in general against tight old men, I don't try to make moves on them,

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my thoughts as well

[fixedset]

Hi sirio,

I was the villian in hand 2 and a 2+2 lurker, so I knew who you were before the hand began.

First off, I had about 30K at the start of the hand and was the table chip leader by a good margin, I think this makes all the difference here. I could double you up and still be in good shape.

Here is the background information from my prespective. I beleive you were at the table for 25-35 hands when this hand occurred. During this time I had won several small pots, twice coming over the top of a raise preflop. I don't beleive I showed down a single hand. I remember one player folding tens face up to my reraise preflop.

You had played very few pots, and commented how boring the table was at one point. The hand previous to this one, you raised from the CO and gave up on the flop when the BB put up a fight.

I gave you more credit for a hand than I normally would for a late opener at this type of table. This table was passive enough to open from LP with 23s as far as I was concerned. But in this case I was thinking you had Ax, KT+, or 22-AA, so I knew I was behind. I was confident my stack leverage would more than make up for my weak hand and you would need a strong hand to play for all your chips at this stage. In fact, I considered reraising preflop, but decided calling and then leading most any flop would be a better play.

Ok, so now the flop comes, and its a really good one for KcTc. I decide to stick with the plan and lead with a near pot sized bet as I would if I missed. You are correct that I would much rather take the pot here, but since I hit the flop I'm prepared to play for all your chips.

I don't like check raising here. If I completely missed the flop, I'd be leading most flops anyway, so it fits my style and doesn't give any information away. I'm the type of player who often leads the flop with a set against a pre flop raiser at this stage of a tournament.

You re-raise all in after some chip dancing. I don't like this at all, as my whole plan for the hand was to win a small pot, not build a big pot for a coin flip (or worse), but I can't really fold without a damn good read that you have AA/KK or a set, and I don't have one. I call, and I'm shocked to see ace high no draw for all your chips. As the dealer finishes out the board, I'm looking back and forth at your cards and the board trying to figure out what I missed.

I beleive the turn was a 5, making you a straight, then the 7 put a bigger straight on the board, and of coarse completed my flush. I remember the dealer called it a split pot at first because of the straight on the board. And shortly after that a green $25 chip came flying through the air as I scooped the pot.

It was nice playing with you during the short stint we had. I'm interested in your thoughts on my line, if you have any.

-Jordan

[11t]

About hand 1, I dislike this play. If you put somebody on AA-QQ I think attempting to bluff them off of an undercard flop seems pseudo-suicidal.

[slickpoppa]

So you played like a kamikaze at the WSOP so you could go to a math contest? What a nerd

[locutus2002]

Hand 1:

I think you have to let the hand go on and check behind on the turn.

Based on your previous play and your analysis I think you correctly read villain for AA-QQ. Villain has been raising for information too, when he bumped you to T1000 when the flush came on the turn in the earlier hand its for information only. I think that this kind of player would have repopped you with QQ or even KK after you raised to T3000, because he'd want to know where he's at with his over pair. I think he also gains information because he has you pegged as the sort of player that will not overbet a strong hand with showdown value like the small flush earlier. I think villain most likely has AA, and he's made you for JJ-KK.

The turn is non-scary, and villain checks it because he thinks that hero will lay down the lower range of his hands to a bet, but will be willing to bet for information with it.

I think its unlikely that you can represent TT here, and checking behind is the best option followed by giving up on the hand. After villain checks the turn I think you have to expect him to at least call, after calling your flop raise.

It's a non-threatening board, and I think you can give a free card because this villain is unlikely to get here with two overs. I'd wait to see what he did on the river and maybe look him up if it was cheap.

[sirio11]

Hi Jordan !

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I was the villian in hand 2 and a 2+2 lurker, so I knew who you were before the hand began

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Yes, those damm Bodog shirts.


Your line of play is fine, especially since you said:

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If I completely missed the flop, I'd be leading most flops anyway, so it fits my style and doesn't give any information away

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I still prefer the check raise vs somebody with my stack size. If you check raise, I can't play with you unless I have a hand, and still you have good odds with your hand. Of course with such a flop you're playing this hand, and the best way to avoid playing flips vs AK or the such is to check raise, unless you think the player is not likely to make continuation bets. With your hand I think I go for the check raise about 65% of the time, and the bet 35%.

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I beleive the turn was a 5, making you a straight, then the 7 put a bigger straight on the board, and of coarse completed my flush.

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I was so focused about not seeing a club, that maybe I didn't notice the straight, that's funny.

By the way, how did you do? Did you make the money?

[fixedset]

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By the way, how did you do? Did you make the money?

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I limped into the money with a pretty short stack and busted 279th.