2 Controversial hands from the WSOP ME

[sirio11]

Hi all, I busted out yesterday from the ME and the long wait for WSOP 2006 just started. I'm doing a trip report, I promise, but for now I want to share these 2 hands that were the most controversial I played yesterday. For all the newbies to the forum, this is a great time, you have many great players sharing hands and insights from the most important poker tournament event in the world, feel free to participate in the thread, don't be shy, ask, comprehend, study, keep getting better, that's the difference, so many great players these days, but not all of them have the will or the desire to keep improving.

Anyway, after the 1st break I have a very healthy stack, around 18k when the 1st hand came, the 2nd hand was my last hand in the tournament.
First of all, I went to the tournament, trying to play a little different that I use to, I'm pretty conservative and I usually don't take big risks in the early stages of a tournament like the ME, but I have the following dilemma. I was invited to be a juror in the International Mathematical Olympiad (IMO); for those of you who don't know about the IMO, it is just simply the most important Mathematical contest in the world, the brighest young minds (High School) in the planet are participating; China and the USA are the superpowers in this event, this year is going to be held in Mexico, and since I have been involved with the National Contest in Mexico for many years, I was invited, it is an honor and once in a lifetime opportunity, the problem is, the IMO starts on July 10, and the WSOP ME in July 7, so what to do? I love poker and I love the Olympiad, Should I miss the most important tournament in Poker History or should I miss the IMO? Well, as a good online multi-tabling player, I decided I have a shot to do both. My starting day was July 8, so if I was going to be bust from the ME, it had to be on Day 1. So, the idea was monster stack at the end of day 1 or else. I'm not an accumulator as some in this forum already know, so the change in style of course was not easy, and in general I didn't change that much, but I was willing to make more risky plays than usual. With this in mind, this is the way I played those 2 hands.

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Hand#1

2nd level, blinds 50-100, player in EP makes it 600, I have JJ in LP and I called, EP has about 13K and I about 18K. He's an old man, playing very conservative, but he looked like a good player.

Flop came T76r, and he bet 1000 into the 1350 pot. Now, what to do, what is the plan?

2 background hands to understand better the situation.
3 hands before, he raised in MP to 600 and I have JJ also !! and called in the button, flop came 973r and he just bet 300 into the pot, I "mini" raised (I know it was a mistake) and he called. A in the turn and he lead with a 800 bet, I fold and he showed me the A, most probably he had AK, I told him I had JJ.
In the first level, with 3 limpers I called in the button with 32c. The flop came KJ4 with 2 clubs, checked to me and I bet 175 into the 300 pot. EP (not the old guy) calls and we're heads up. 5 of clubs in the turn, he checks and I bet my flush, 350, he then raises to 1000, I thought for a moment and called; 4d in the river, paired the board and he checked !, mmmmmm I thought and I didn't see any value of betting here, so I checked behind, he shows KJ for 2 pairs and I win with my little flush, the important thing here is that the table saw me checking a flush in the river.

Now back to hand#1, after his 1000 bet in the flop, I decided not to give him cheap cards this time and I raise to 3000, he called. When he called I know what he has, it should be AA,KK and maybe QQ. He has 10400 left and I have about 14K. And now come the very risky play. 3 in the turn, board now T763, and he checked to me, I decided to win that pot, I know he has a big pair, I decided to make the smallest of the bets such that he knows if he's calling, he's playing for all his chips, but if he reraises all in, I just fold. So I went ahead and bet 6000 representing a set, tens, sixes or sevens. He thought for about a minute and a half and finally decided to go all in. Of course I didnt call the last 4400, I showed him the JJ and fold, and he showed me AA.

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Hand #2

Blinds are 100-200 with a 25 ante. This was the last hand before the dinner break, table is pretty damm tight. I have A2d in LP, and since everybody is getting ready to go to the dinner break, I raised to 700, BB calls, he has about a 22K stack, I have about 7150, 6450 left after the 700 bet. The pot is now 1650.
Flop is 3c4s6c, not a good flop for me, he thinks for a while and fires a 1500 bet, he's a young conservative player with a PokerStars shirt, his bet (and his face) looked like he wanted to take the pot right there. If he has a great hand, I think he's checking the flop to check raise me. So I counted my chips to see if my raise could be big enough, and I decided to go all in for 4950 more. I thought he maybe has a little pair or maybe a 5 for a straight draw, or maybe a flush draw, but most probably a little pair. He didn't like my raise and thought for a while and then decided to call with a sad face. He had KTc, I was ahead, but he was a small favorite, I was surprised he took that long to call with his hand. About 15k in the pot, turn is 7s and the river is a club and i was out.

I'm very interested in your opinions about these 2 hands. I think they are controversial and involve important concepts about tournament play.

David

[HiatusOver]

Your hand just doesnt look enough like a set to make this guy fold QQ/KK/AA. Nothing about the way u played this hand screams set enough to make this guy fold AA. I think calling the flop and raising the turn is the only way to get him off his hand, but then again, I dont think trying to take someone off AA/KK is the best strategy in general If u never try it, most will probably be better off.

[beeyjay]

I'd be obviously be interested in any feedback on these thoughts.

Hand 1:

I think you may have ruined your chance to represent your flush with your raise on the flop. On a flop that uncoordinated (to a tighter player rasing from ep) I can't imagine raising 3x his bet like you did. It seems much more like you hit with either A10 or more likely based on what I understand your image to be probably an overpair. I think that raise was important as then you were able to put him on his hand but I think it simultaneously allowed him to put you on a hand enough to realize he was ahead. For that reason I don't know if I like the bet on the turn. With that said though, based on your image from what I gather he probably saw you as a fairly scared player and might think you capable of raising with a set there just because you are very scared of being sucked out on. Overall I don't think I like the turn bet because he has to think you put him on a high pair.

Hand 2:

Based on your read of him wanting to take the pot right there I think a flush draw is fairly common and as I was reading it I was leaning toward his range being more likely a flush draw than a small pair and I think your push is correct. When you put him on a little pair were you thinking he hit the board or that he had a pocket pair.

[Jurollo]

Hey sirio,
First thing's first, great to finally meet you while I was out in Vegas. You seem like a genuinely nice guy which is a nice trend that has carried over from your personality here, or vice versa, haha. Hoping to see you again at another big live event in the near future. Now to the hands.

Hand #1
Preflop I like calling behind as generally speaking a reraise gets you no info and also could dig yourself a big hole if it gets reraised again by EP. After he bets nearly the entire pot I am thinking his bet is to do 1 of 2 things... a) force you out, b) get information about how strong you are, to me this doesn't look like a bet being made by someone who is particularly strong at the moment so he wants the pot and wants it uncontested now. I don't like calling here as it committs another T1000 and get no info from him, I pop it to T2500 or T3000 and see if he comes along, if not you take down the T2350, if so I check behind on the turn unless I hit and fold to another big lead. Check call a decent bet on the river (if it remains safe).

Hand 2
I like the move on this hand simply because of the makeup of your opponent, is he willing to blow his shot at glory on a smallish pair or weak draw? Likely not. The T1500 bet (as I know well in level 4) does give away the fact that he is either a) drawing or b) not strong at the moment. Overall I like the move, sorry it didnt work out for you sirio, best luck at the IMO, we'll be looking for the non-poker related trip report, or at least I will. 'Grats on all your success in the WSOP this year as well couldnt have happened to a better guy.
~Justin

EDIT: I wrote the response to hand 1 without reading the post flop actions, i.e. after his T1000 bet.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

[ QUOTE ]

I was invited to be a juror in the International Mathematical Olympiad (IMO); for those of you who don't know about the IMO, it is just simply the most important Mathematical contest in the world, the brighest young minds (High School) in the planet are participating; China and the USA are the superpowers in this event, this year is going to be held in Mexico, and since I have been involved with the National Contest in Mexico for many years, I was invited, it is an honor and once in a lifetime opportunity,

[/ QUOTE ]

A bit derailing, but my brother participated in that olympics some years ago and it was a great experience for him, so probably nice to be a part of. Find some comfort in that [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] .

[sirio11]

[ QUOTE ]
I can't imagine raising 3x his bet like you did. It seems much more like you hit with either A10

[/ QUOTE ]

Look at his overbet preflop, with blinds 50-100, he raised to 600 and I called, so the AT is out of the question.

[sirio11]

[ QUOTE ]
Nothing about the way u played this hand screams set enough to make this guy fold AA. I think calling the flop and raising the turn is the only way to get him off his hand

[/ QUOTE ]

Calling the flop and raising the turn was another option, but most probably I have to commit more chips then.
I think all my actions scream strenght if you review what happened before. In the hand before with the AK-JJ, he bet little in the flop, and now he bet strong, he know I know that; in the hand before I just make a little raise with my overpair, and now I make a raise to 3000 despite the fact that "he knows I know, he's strong".

[ QUOTE ]
I dont think trying to take someone off AA/KK is the best strategy in general

[/ QUOTE ]

Completely agree with this stament.

[ QUOTE ]
If u never try it, most will probably be better off.

[/ QUOTE ]

Never is such a strong word.

[sirio11]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand #1
Preflop I like calling behind as generally speaking a reraise gets you no info and also could dig yourself a big hole if it gets reraised again by EP. After he bets nearly the entire pot I am thinking his bet is to do 1 of 2 things... a) force you out, b) get information about how strong you are, to me this doesn't look like a bet being made by someone who is particularly strong at the moment so he wants the pot and wants it uncontested now. I don't like calling here as it committs another T1000 and get no info from him, I pop it to T2500 or T3000 and see if he comes along, if not you take down the T2350, if so I check behind on the turn unless I hit and fold to another big lead. Check call a decent bet on the river (if it remains safe).


[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, this is a fine way to deal with the hand.

[IHateKeithSmart]

[ QUOTE ]

Hand #1
Preflop I like calling behind as generally speaking a reraise gets you no info and also could dig yourself a big hole if it gets reraised again by EP. After he bets nearly the entire pot I am thinking his bet is to do 1 of 2 things... a) force you out, b) get information about how strong you are, to me this doesn't look like a bet being made by someone who is particularly strong at the moment so he wants the pot and wants it uncontested now. I don't like calling here as it committs another T1000 and get no info from him, I pop it to T2500 or T3000 and see if he comes along, if not you take down the T2350, if so I check behind on the turn unless I hit and fold to another big lead. Check call a decent bet on the river (if it remains safe).
post flop actions, i.e. after his T1000 bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like Jurollo's line here. I think I play the same as you did pf and on the flop. It sounds like you had a good read on him when he called your flop reraise.

His pf raise seemed like AA-QQ or AK. His flop bet seemed a bit big for a continuation bet, so you can probably rule out AK, leaving you as you suspected against the hands you didn't want to be up against.

I check behind on the turn and try to save a few chips if I'm behind, but given your mindset, I don't think the turn bet was bad.

Congrats on your series and have fun in Mexico.

[bugstud]

on hand one you managed to lose more chips with an overpair that wasn't good than I did. Congrats! [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]