New York Poker Players To Protest NYPD Raids

[IgorSmiles]

[ QUOTE ]
Fear of the Government and a sense of hopelessness in the face of it's seeming overwhelming power is the first step towards destruction of the rights of people. It is not right that a Government should control a People. A Govenment ought be in place to serve the People, and to serve at the pleasure of the people.

If people passively allow a Government to trample it's rights and confiscate it's property without protest, then those people are willingly giving up thier natural right to Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very poetic. And well put. However, the place to stand on your principles is higher up the chain of command. Not to some beat cop who is just doing his job, will most likely see you as giving him lip and being uncooperative, and wont give a rat's rearend about your vision of government.

[ronniejames]

"Haven't heard this name in a while. I played him in chess a couple of times, about 8 years ago."

Are you Tim Mirabile, who beat me in a very theoretical Sicilan Najdorf at the Nassau CC? If so, how the hell are you? The last time I saw you was at a computer store near Huntington.

[giantsrule]

[ QUOTE ]
The loitering ticket for the purpose of gambling is of questionable constitutional validity according to this source. Scroll all the way to the bottom.
New York Gambling Laws

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As I've posted before, an appeals court overruled one of those cases and held the statute constitutional. The current state of the law is therefore that the statute is constitutional.

The bottom line really is that the whole area of the legality for the players is gray. I think it's probably legal, but according to what was posted in this forum after the cops raided a Brooklyn club the police apparently disagreed and issued players summonses.

As for the protest anyone attending should realize that they could be charged with loitering for the purpose of gambling (which is a violation of the law, but NOT a crime). Also, anyone who does not cooperate with the police could also end up charged with crimes such as resisting arrest and/or obstructing governmental administration.

[TimM]

[ QUOTE ]
"Haven't heard this name in a while. I played him in chess a couple of times, about 8 years ago."

Are you Tim Mirabile, who beat me in a very theoretical Sicilan Najdorf at the Nassau CC? If so, how the hell are you? The last time I saw you was at a computer store near Huntington.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, yes that's me. I guess I should have read the rest of the thread. I'm doing OK, I still play at the Nassau club, except in the summer when it's too hot.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

[ QUOTE ]
"We don't know where the money (gambling profits) is going,"

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The fact that the police had this to say TWICE in the same article (whether that be by their own choice or that of the writer) still just indicates to me that they'd far rather keep $100,000 than worry about "justice" (something police departments claim to be all-about, but in reality are the farthest thing from). They have no suspiciouns of what said funds MIGHT be used for, none at all, just that they "don't know where the money (gambling profits) is going" i.e. an excuse to take it all. Ultimately the NYPD is just an association of scumbag gangster thugs with state-sponsored badges (just like all other jurisdictions of pigs), and they're all far worse than any organized crime figures that might be making a buck here and there off of poker. Screw them all, cops are jerkoffs, I will stand by this till the day I die.

al

[Jdanz]

If the money was at the time in the possesion was in the possession of the cage at the card room then the cops can seize it.

If the players wanted to claim the money as theirs they could claim it via an understood contract (chips for cash and vice versa).

However as the contract is based on an illegal activity (the running of a poker room) the contract while not neccissarily INVALID, it is most certainly UNENFORCABLE within the Unites States.

This is true for ANY contract based upon an illegal activity.

EDIT: i'm not a lawyer or anything, but i have interned for NYPD legal, specifically in the forfiture unit, in my much less then professional opinion nobody has any grounds whatsoever (legally speaking) to get their money back.

Hi, I'm Jim Lesczynski, the Libertarian candidate for NYC Public Advocate who thought up this protest. I want to thank everybody who has expressed an interest in the protest and this issue, and I'd love to see some of you at 1 Police Plaza tonight. To my mind, it's a crystal-clear issue. Poker is, at worst, a victimless crime -- if it is even a crime at all. The only people who have been victimized are the players themselves, and only then by the NYPD.

I would like to comment on this "the cop is just doing his job" business. Yes, I understand that the lower-echelon officers who had to do the dirty work didn't think up these raids on their own. The real problem is with the District Attorney's office. My running mate Audrey Silk, the Libertarian candidate for NYC mayor, is a retired NYPD cop, and I have nothing but respect for her service to the city.

That said, I don't think the cops get a free pass. If we learned anything in the 20th century, it's that "I was just following orders" is no defense. If your job is, in part, to enforce immoral laws or follow orders that hurt nonviolent "criminals", then I'm sorry, but you're accountable for your actions. It is no accident that we chose police headquarters as the venue for our protest. There is something wrong with the cops separating peaceful citizens from their money.

Regardless of police culpability, I hope we can all agree with the fundamental issue that these asset forfeitures are an affront to a free society. I would love to see as many of you as possible join us tomorrow night to stand up for your fellow poker players and an important principle. If nothing else, we should have some grins and gigggles. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

I can't access this forum during work hours (web filters at the office), but if anyone has any questions, feel free to email me at jim@lesczynski.com .

Yours in freedom,
Jim Lesczynski
Libertarian for NYC Public Advocate

[chicane]

Supposing your quest is successful.....

What would be the physical means for the players to actually get their money back? Would a fund be created to which each player could apply for a refund (sort of like those from stockholder class-action suits)? Are there any chip counts available from the night of the busts?

[chicane]

Can I assume that your group has a permit.

What do you think is the value of a Public Protest? What do hope will happen with this confiscation issue-some publicity in the press?

I would think that it is up to the aggrieved parties (poker players whose money was confiscated) to make their case. Can they sue-if so whom (The PD?) and in which court?

THE People, United, Will Never Be Defeated.......

[other1]

So is anyone actually going? I'm thinking about grabbing my camera and going down to watch/take photos.