Playing against the 800lb Gorilla (long)

[Al_Capone_Junior]

When you're in a game with a gorilla, you have to be assertive. Don't give them opportunities to make plays on you AT ALL. It's really tough when they are on your left. You have to tighten up big time, tho from reading your post, you're too loose for tournament play anyway.

Now take my comment here regarding your looseness in the following context: I'm loose as a goose in a NL ring game, especially if I've got momentum going. But in a tournament, I'm almost always seeing flop % of about 9% by the end of it. TIGHT baby, TIGHT. J9o in the sb, MUCK. A4s UTG, MUCK.

Assertiveness: You flopped two pair with your ace-four. You then proceded to check and give everyone a free chance to make a suckout on your. Then the turn came a queen, virtually assuring that at least one person has a one card gutshot to broadway. So you checked again and gave them another free chance to beat you. Finally the river showed up pairing the queens on the board. You already gave anyone with a queen two free chances to catch, which, if anyone has a queen, they just did. Yet you finally come to life and start betting on the river. FLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME. BET THE FLOP. Bet it big, don't let anyone have a cheap card. You won the same size pot when you bet the river, but you gave everyone two free chances to beat you!! Flame again! Boo! Hiss!

Going all-in with the QQ against BG's reraise was great, but I think I would have raised slightly more than 3x the BB in the first place. I don't like 3x the BB with QQ-AA, because everyone and their kids (who are playing their internet poker account) will just call it and then you're up against a bunch of loose hands anyway. If they will call, BET BIGGER. If they fold, heh, it's better to WIN a small pot than LOSE a big one.

You also made a couple assertive plays that I liked. When playing against gorillas, that's how you have to play. If you're all-in, BG can't make any plays on you. I like it as a weapon against hyper aggressive players who like to make "moves."

Flaming over with. I liked the post.

Al

[Greg (FossilMan)]

The way to get over the fear is to truly believe that you know the right play, that it really is the right play, and that being such there is no choice but to make it. Once you have this intellectual knowledge and belief in that knowledge, making the right play should be easier.

And the comment about scared money is also correct. If you're afraid to lose, you don't have much chance of winning.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[Greg (FossilMan)]

Don't limp with these hands unless there is a very good chance you won't get raised, and a pretty good chance you'll get paid off when you hit.

Late in most tournaments, neither of these is true.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[jerome baker]

"Wait for a spot where you're edge is likely high enough (e.g., 3:2 or better)"

what are some spots where you are 3:2 or better?

[Magician]

So do you just muck such hands, or do you make a modest raise?

Define a 'modest' raise - how many BB or how many times what's already in the pot?

[bpmyrx7]

I think there has been some great advise on most of the hands...I want to just look at #3, when BG came overtop of your bet. You didn't have the nut, but it was most likely the strongest hand going. My thought would have been to just call this bet instead of going all-in and play it through letting the BG feel he had the hand. This would accomplish a few things, if the trey 4's stood up...One, you would get more money out of BG and 2, you would allow the other players to see that he is playing the bully, if they hadnt figured that out. Thus, maybe you would start getting some play help from the others at the table...That is, if they are paying attention [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]. Lastly, maybe it would cause the BG to think twice about which players he uses his bully tactics against.

[Greg (FossilMan)]

I almost never make a modest raise. If I'm the first one in and I'm going to raise, it's mostly to 3xBB.

Whether I raise with such hands depends upon how likely I think it is that I will get called or reraised, and by whom, and how they might tend to play postflop, and a bunch of other things.

Even though there are some things I will almost never do, and some things I will almost always do, there is no strict pattern of play that I follow.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[DaNoob]

Hand #3 was one of those situations where I thought I may have played back at him too strongly. My thought at the time was that trips are vulnerable and that it would be better to take down the pot than get sucked out on. After it was over, I wondered if I should have trapped him into giving me more money, hopefully scaring him off some of his bullying tactics, as you suggested.

Slowplaying/trapping is a dangerous game with low trips and 2 pair, so the decision to do this would have to be very player dependent. In this particular case, I think it could have worked to my advantage. The funny thing, however, is that no matter how well I had played any of the hands listed above, I was DESTINED to get munched on the last one. No way am I mucking QQ, and no way is he not going to call me with KQs. So, a few more chips here, a few less there, and I get the distinct feeling that I would be knocked out of the tourney at the exact same point, in the exact same way.

Asi es la vida.

Thanks for the thoughts!!

[Greg (FossilMan)]

While I'm not arguing with how you played #3, if you did get him to double you up that hand, you would've had that many more chips on the final hand, and maybe had HIM covered, so that when he sucks out, you're still in action.

Also, you might not have folded on some of the later hands, and gone on to win them, knocking him out before the QQ hand even came up.

And, of course, everybody might have played differently, and different cards would've been dealt, if hand #3 had happened differently.

So, really, the only answer is that you can't look at the results of one hand, and then say you should've played an earlier hand differently. At the time the earlier hand took place, you either made the smartest possible decision at that time, or you didn't, irrespective of the outcome of that and subsequent hands.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[bigfishead]

Fossilman made many of the same points I was thinking upon reading this.

First thing< notice hand #2. As soon as you play back at him he folds. Use that to your advantage. He is gonna try to run over you if you let him. But because of hand #2 YOU OWN HIM. Now play your game.

Hand #3. I think I would let him just bet....give him the long pause call. check any turn card...then decide if hell bet the river before you raise/call. Most of the time these guys will bet river too. I think you LOST chips this hand. I just busted a guy just like this online. Trapped him and check called till he was all-in on the river.
I could care less about the draws. 90% of the time I win with this flop/hand/player. How do I maximize my value/profit?

#4 I agree with Greg...either all-in or muck. Neither a bad move but making a small bet is real bad here.

#5 I have him dominated think I'll raise...what will he call? 600-800 most likely....bet accordningly. But not all-in..he wont call. I really dont mind a call but taking the blinds is fine too.

Hand #9 way too big of a bet. Unless you just want to take it here that's too big of a bet. let him trap himself again by checkcalling the turn. You know he'll muck if you bet now. So win the money, check-call turn check-raise river.

After these changes I expect you to have over 10k in chips. Now he is down a bunch and watch for him to tighten. once he does, start stealing.

Also I hardly ever go to war with the big stack. Unless I have a hand. A real hand. I prefer to pik it up from the others unless something happens for me.

Once this is done you are now putting him on the defensive. "defensive with tilt". Now he's prime for runnin over. Honey bring me the truck! I want some road kill!