A video ad from the GOP

[ QUOTE ]
it's hard to get substantive political discourse into a 30 second commercial. That's what debates are for.

[/ QUOTE ]

Apologist nonsense. You can spend your 30 seconds summarizing your position on an issue or issues, or you can spend it calling the other side names. I prefer the former.

[kurto]

Actually it says nothing. Its just dirty politics as usual.

You act as if Republicans don't say negative crap all the time about their opponents. See Rove.

No need to respond. Its not so interesting to see the people who aren't interesting with even a modicum of objectivity and just buy anything shoveled at them.

You're totally right... the left are just negative. Unlike the Republicans who are fair and positive. The left are just being 'major league *ssholes' with their negative commenting. Damn those terrorist sympathizers.

[US Conservative]

Good job GOP! We need to get the word out so that the public knows the truth about libs. I'm so tired of libs and their socialist agenda.

[shots]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually it says nothing. Its just dirty politics as usual.

You act as if Republicans don't say negative crap all the time about their opponents. See Rove.

No need to respond. Its not so interesting to see the people who aren't interesting with even a modicum of objectivity and just buy anything shoveled at them.

You're totally right... the left are just negative. Unlike the Republicans who are fair and positive. The left are just being 'major league *ssholes' with their negative commenting. Damn those terrorist sympathizers.

[/ QUOTE ]

When did I ever say anything about the left being the only ones that go negative? Going negative has its place in politics in that sometimes you have to point out what you think is wrong with your opponents. My comment about the direction the democratic party was going was in reference to the fact that they seem to be becoming more and more the party of the ultra-left libs.

[JackWhite]

[ QUOTE ]
You're totally right... the left are just negative. Unlike the Republicans who are fair and positive. The left are just being 'major league *ssholes' with their negative commenting. Damn those terrorist sympathizers.


[/ QUOTE ]

Kurto, when was the last time you heard a major Democrat figure offer a positive agenda? Their own plan on anything? You don't have to agree with Bush, but at least he does present some original ideas on issues..even if they aren't great. It takes more guts to offer something like a social security revamp, then to just attack any plan your opponent makes. When most Democrats are asked their plans on social security or Iraq, they simply say they don't like what Bush is doing/offering.

[WillMagic]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You're totally right... the left are just negative. Unlike the Republicans who are fair and positive. The left are just being 'major league *ssholes' with their negative commenting. Damn those terrorist sympathizers.


[/ QUOTE ]

Kurto, when was the last time you heard a major Democrat figure offer a positive agenda? Their own plan on anything? You don't have to agree with Bush, but at least he does present some original ideas on issues..even if they aren't great. It takes more guts to offer something like a social security revamp, then to just attack any plan your opponent makes. When most Democrats are asked their plans on social security or Iraq, they simply say they don't like what Bush is doing/offering.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly.

Will

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
When did I ever say anything about the left being the only ones that go negative?

[/ QUOTE ] You were celebrating this ad. The ad does not but quote various politicians making nasty comments about the right and pretending this is representative of the Left. It wouldn't be all that hard for someone to take similar quotes from the right and pretend that there ugly comments represent the entirety of the Republican Party.

The ad has NO substance.

[ QUOTE ]
Going negative has its place in politics in that sometimes you have to point out what you think is wrong with your opponents.

[/ QUOTE ] so, all the comments by the politicians listed were them pointing out what they is wrong their opponents.

Going negative is why so much of America is fed up with politics. parties spend more time trashing their opponents then actually debating any substantive issues. Its kind of joke because, since it works, both sides spend all their time appealing to the worst in their constituents.

[ QUOTE ]
My comment about the direction the democratic party was going was in reference to the fact that they seem to be becoming more and more the party of the ultra-left libs.

[/ QUOTE ] Nothing you said indicated that nor have you shown that to be the case. I find most people have no idea what constitutes a 'liberal' and people prone to terms like "ultra-left" just throw the term around because they think it demeans their opposition, when in reality, it says NOTHING. One doesn't have to look hard to see that so many from the right label anyone who disagrees with them as 'liberals.' Take Clinton, for instance... he wasn't liberal. Hilary isn't particuarly liberal either.

Nothing in the ad indicates anything about liberal policies.

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
Kurto, when was the last time you heard a major Democrat figure offer a positive agenda?

[/ QUOTE ] I don't expect any partisans to see anything of the sort. Personally, I think Democrats in general offer more pragmatic and positive ideas on most of the major issues; from taking care of the planet, international relations, domestic issues (from civil rights, to consumer protectionism,) etc.

[ QUOTE ]
You don't have to agree with Bush, but at least he does present some original ideas on issues..even if they aren't great.

[/ QUOTE ] I see no value in having someone being a strong advocate of bad ideas. On the contrary, I think his anti-intellectualism is harmful. Take his attitude towards envirnomental issues. He has his political agenda (weakening things like environmental standards) and then discards any and all evidence which contradicts his position. Going so far as to hire an oil company advocate to edit out any scientific references about global warming from the official report. This is grossly irresponsible.

[ QUOTE ]
It takes more guts to offer something like a social security revamp, then to just attack any plan your opponent makes.

[/ QUOTE ] My problem with Bush is (like above) he decides what he wants then moves forward regardless of its feasibility. Hey, its great if he has suggestions to improve things, but to sell his ideas, he misrepresented the facts. (in this case, he misrepresented the real status of Social Security) He also disregards the objections of anyone who disagrees. He doesn't present his ideas for debate.

Frankly... on Social Security, if I recall correctly, most experts on the issue thought BOTH candidates (Bush and Kerry's plans) weren't likely to help things.

[ QUOTE ]
When most Democrats are asked their plans on social security or Iraq, they simply say they don't like what Bush is doing/offering.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Democrats plan on Iraq was not to go to war. The war was completely unnecesary. The criticisms about what has happened have been largely valid.

In terms of what to do now that we're there, I don't know that anyone has the slightest clue. All anyone agrees is that we've created a mess and we can't just leave. Frankly, I hope this administration can turn this into something good. But the left has made many valid criticisms about how we got there and what's happened since we've been there.

[shots]

[ QUOTE ]
You were celebrating this ad. The ad does not but quote various politicians making nasty comments about the right and pretending this is representative of the Left. It wouldn't be all that hard for someone to take similar quotes from the right and pretend that there ugly comments represent the entirety of the Republican Party.

[/ QUOTE ]

An assertion that is made all the time by the left.

[ QUOTE ]
so, all the comments by the politicians listed were them pointing out what they is wrong their opponents.

Going negative is why so much of America is fed up with politics. parties spend more time trashing their opponents then actually debating any substantive issues. Its kind of joke because, since it works, both sides spend all their time appealing to the worst in their constituents.

[/ QUOTE ]

I said that negative commentary has it's place and I meant just that. The add is an open criticisim of the statements made which reflect the views of the people that made them including the head of the DNC and the next democratic presidential candidate. The statements themselves however are for the most part not going after views but against people themselves some of which are horrible stereotyping.

[ QUOTE ]
Nothing you said indicated that nor have you shown that to be the case. I find most people have no idea what constitutes a 'liberal' and people prone to terms like "ultra-left" just throw the term around because they think it demeans their opposition, when in reality, it says NOTHING. One doesn't have to look hard to see that so many from the right label anyone who disagrees with them as 'liberals.' Take Clinton, for instance... he wasn't liberal. Hilary isn't particuarly liberal either.
Nothing in the ad indicates anything about liberal policies.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't throw around the term ultra-left I use it when applicable which I must say is far less then you use the term neo-con. As for the term itself it most definetly does not mean nothing we have a widely understood way of defining peoples political views as either left or right wing or as a centrist someone who is extremely left wing could be accuratley defind as being ultra-left. The add is indicative of the new democratic tone which is further to the left and out of the mainstream then ever before.

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
An assertion that is made all the time by the left.


[/ QUOTE ] What is an assertion made all the time by the left? what exactly are you disagreeing with?

[ QUOTE ]
The add is an open criticisim of the statements made which reflect the views of the people that made them including the head of the DNC and the next democratic presidential candidate.

[/ QUOTE ] It doesn't criticize them. It doesn't take any quote an put them in to context. If merely plays them and implies these quotes represent the entirety of the Democratic party.

For the record; I have criticized many of those quotes, particularly those by Dean. I think Dean's being an ass and is on par with Rove for nastiness. For the quotes about 'liars'... for starters, I think its quite evident that there's a lot lies coming out of this administration. Beyond that, I'm cynical enough to think that most of the politicians on all sides are lying. Finally, this is NO different then Bush. In the 2000 Election, the Republicans did nothing but accuse Gore of being a liar pretty much on a daily basis. Both sides do it, but the Republicans are trying to pretend they're above it (and this represents the Democrats) while at the same time, doing the very thing they're being critical of about the Democrats.

[ QUOTE ]
The add is indicative of the new democratic tone which is further to the left and out of the mainstream then ever before.

[/ QUOTE ] This is another mindless platitude. In the last election, polling showed that most people favored the Democrats on all issues EXCEPT on national security. And now, according to recent polling, most of the country doesn't trust Bush in this area anymore.