|
|
#31
06-21-2005, 01:35 PM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: pocket 8s on the button, standard?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] it was the first reason a poster gave for making this preflop raise. [/ QUOTE ] It was the first reason - it was not the only reason. [/ QUOTE ] True. The other argument you made for raising was to get a free river card. To me, making a raise preflop to get a free card on the river seems like a dicey proposition at best. I was just surprised there was nothing in your post about the primary reason to make the raise: value. 
|
|
#33
06-21-2005, 02:05 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: pocket 8s on the button, standard?
[ QUOTE ]
True. The other argument you made for raising was to get a free river card. To me, making a raise preflop to get a free card on the river seems like a dicey proposition at best. I was just surprised there was nothing in your post about the primary reason to make the raise: value. [/ QUOTE ] You vastly misinterpreting my posts (particularly my original reply). I'm not trying to be mean - just pointing this out. First, in my original first reply I stated the results of OP's PF action being reason enough for me to raise PF. I didn't say they were the only reasons or the reasons that should be the first considerations for raising - I just said that getting the options to see cards for free (or to see them cheap... or to get the flop/turn checked to you ...however you want to put it) is a favorable result from raising. Second, in my recent reply "first" was referring to that post in general - not to a free turn card being the first reason and a free river card being the second reason. Free/Cheap cards are one reason to raise. Value is another. Taking control of the hand against weak opponents is another. Possibly folding out decent players in the blinds to play against only the weak opponents at the table would be another reason. Possibly my reply would've been better stated if I would've emphasized the benefit of having the flop checked to Hero rather than describing it as a "free card" play. Again - this is really just semantics.
|
|
#34
06-21-2005, 02:12 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: pocket 8s on the button, standard?
[ QUOTE ]
my main point was even with a longshot hand you should not be considering seeing that turn card as irrelevant when the pot is decent sized. [/ QUOTE ] Thanks Chief. I've got a lot to learn, but I certainly don't think seeing the turn is ever irrelavent. It's relevant regardless of pot size. I just don't think it was free, or cheap here. Hero properly raised for value with excellent position and seized control of the hand, giving him the luxury of a choice to check through or bet on the flop. But by definition (and this is all I'm saying) there is no free card here. It can't be a reason to raise. It doesn't exist.
|
|
#35
06-21-2005, 02:17 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: pocket 8s on the button, standard?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] my main point was even with a longshot hand you should not be considering seeing that turn card as irrelevant when the pot is decent sized. [/ QUOTE ] Thanks Chief. I've got a lot to learn, but I certainly don't think seeing the turn is ever irrelavent. It's relevant regardless of pot size. I just don't think it was free, or cheap here. Hero properly raised for value with excellent position and seized control of the hand, giving him the luxury of a choice to check through or bet on the flop. But by definition (and this is all I'm saying) there is no free card here. It can't be a reason to raise. It doesn't exist. [/ QUOTE ] I think we're all agreeing here...as crunchy said "semantics". [ QUOTE ] giving him the luxury of a choice to check through or bet on the flop [/ QUOTE ] This is what exists, and we all understand that we should not underestimate the value in this luxury of choice.
|
|
#36
06-21-2005, 02:38 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: pocket 8s on the button, standard?
[ QUOTE ]
Again - this is really just semantics. [/ QUOTE ] I totally agree; it is just semantics, and I know you're advocating a raise for the right reasons. But this term gets misused constantly, and new posters like myself can fall into traps if they don't understand that the value of raising for a free card (as defined in TOP) is predicated on the bet size increasing on the next street. As always, thanks for taking the time to respond.
|
|
#37
06-21-2005, 07:31 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: pocket 8s on the button, standard?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Again - this is really just semantics. [/ QUOTE ] I totally agree; it is just semantics, and I know you're advocating a raise for the right reasons. But this term gets misused constantly, and new posters like myself can fall into traps if they don't understand that the value of raising for a free card (as defined in TOP) is predicated on the bet size increasing on the next street. As always, thanks for taking the time to respond. [/ QUOTE ] I was just reading in Middle Limit Holdem Poker, and on page 26, Ciaffone and Brier deal with this very topic. I thought I'd throw that out here.
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
