2/4 vs. 3/6, baffled, basic stats show anything?

[Catt]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sample Size.

That said, your blind play needs real work (both stealing and defending).

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, my fold to steal and steal rates are all about 3-4 points outside of the range CallMeIshmael found for those. Great to have a reference for what is "typical", or I'd just have no clue.

They're not way off though. 24% steal vs a norm of 27%, my BB fold percent at 66% vs. a norm of 63%. Probably a leak, but not a huge one. It is one I'm starting a conscious effort to work on though.

[/ QUOTE ]

(emphasis added by me)

I'm not sure how many hands Jordan got at 3/6, but it is my opinion that those "norms" are both somewhat far from optimal. I posted in another thread that with the 1/3 blind structure and prevalence of weak-tighties at 3/6, I think steal attempts should be somewhere north of 35%.

On the defense side of things, look at it this way: you fold your BB almost 2 out every 3 steal attempts. If I am sitting a few seats to your right, then, depending on the characteristics of the players between you and me, I should be stealing against you with a huge range of cards (not necessarily any 2, but damn close to it). I risk $6 to win $4; you fold twice so I profit $8; you call once so I risk $6 to win $7 and I have position on you for the hand. Even if I auto-folded the flop everytime you called my steal raise, I still come out ahead so long as you maintain your 35% defense rate -- and of course sometimes I will have a better hand then you, and sometimes the flop will hit me. If I thought you wouldn't catch on to what I was doing, I would probably steal against you every single time (or almost).

I am assuming (perhaps incorrectly, but based on your blind stats) that when you defend you rarely 3-bet unless you truly do have a very strong hand -- meaning you don't punish steals by reraising decent (note: decent, not really strong) hands. I think defending only 34% of the time is just inviting steals and giving away money.

[ckessel]

Good stuff, I hadn't thought about it that way. True at any level I suppose, but at lower level people don't think so much of stealing so I grant them credit for having strong hands when they raise.

So, to prevent steals from being a leak, what % of the time do I need to call or raise? Let's assume the stealer is an aware TAG, can I assume any 2 cards? Am I defending every time?

Given it's almost impossible to put a stealer on any particular hand, am I basically committed to seeing the showdown if I have an Ace-high?

Damn, I need a whole FAQ on blind defense...

[DMBFan23]

James282 told me during my coaching session with him that I should look to get my "fold BB to steal" down to about 60...I've gotten a bit lower, but anyways that's the advice I got and he's a good player.

note that this is a lot different from fold BB to steal HU

[Catt]

I don't know what the right stat for folding BB to steal is -- I'd go along with James282's advice to Kevin and guess that it is somewhere in the neighborhood of 60%. My own view is, in a 1/3 blind structure, somewhere in the mid-50% is better simply because you'll be defending (or choosing not to) HU more often. Folded to steal HU should be lower.

Perhaps almost as important as how often and when you're defending, is how you're defending. If you think someone is aggressively stealing against you, you need to play back and 3-bet them with playable hands -- they have to understand that they're not risking a single raise to win your blinds, that they're risking a pre-flop 3-bet and a flop bet or checkraise. When you defend with aggression in the right spots, you can really slow down the thinking stealers.

[ckessel]

I just wanted to follow up and thank folks for the advice. I made my original post at 13k hands, which as you can see in the graph was the low point. I started working very intently on my blinds as well as working on both trying isolation plays and noticing when I was getting isolated.

Now, a chunk of this is probably running cold then running hot, but I have to believe using the feedback I got here was key in making the most of that hot streak as well as keeping the post-rush period from becoming a losing streak.

I've also had some great PM's with one 2+2er that's helped me think a level further and that's contributed to my improved play as well.

So, no real content here other than to say thanks and listening to the advice pays off [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] There are a group of posters whose responses I particularly weigh heavily and they had a big influence.