Doing my best Tommy Angelo impression - Page 2

Fnord · #11 06-13-2005, 06:14 AM

http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/...t=all&vc=1

"There are hands you might consider folding for three bets behind you after making it two" - David Sklansky

If this is true, wouldn't QJo be one of those hands?

einbert · #12 06-13-2005, 06:14 AM

Here is what I think.

On most flops you are going to be able to check/fold.

When you do a flop a pair you will be able to make profitable calls most of the time, and you can use your discretion (IE fold on a flop of AJ2).

Sometimes you will flop an OESD, and you know that will be a profitable situation. Maybe some of those times you can push him off of ace high, as he seems rather tight (maybe to the point of being weak-tight). If that is the case then you are going to make up a lot of equity a large percentage of the time there.

And you aren't going to spew bets just because you hit a Q either. In fact if I flop top pair here I'm normally just going to check/call check/call check/call. This hand isn't tremendously difficult to play postflop, even out of position.

But I think the most important factor is just the great price you are getting. I will regularly defend with this hand in the BB against a fairly tight CO openraiser (with stats similar to your opponent's) getting only 3.5-1. That seems like a somewhat comparable situation, although obviously I have more equity against a CO open raiser than against a three-bettor.

crunchy1 · #13 06-13-2005, 08:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/...t=all&vc=1
"There are hands you might consider folding for three bets behind you after making it two" - David Sklansky
If this is true, wouldn't QJo be one of those hands?

[/ QUOTE ]

No. You are taking this one line WAY out of context of the original thread.

crunchy1 · #14 06-13-2005, 08:33 AM

I think the range you're implying for the button here is too limited. There are a total of 2 combinations that have you at worse than 6-to-1 before the flop. There are many hands in the range that have you at 3-to-1, even money and a few combinations that you dominate. IMO, this is an easy call.

Folding here seems to me to be conceeding that you don't play well post-flop. If that's the case then maybe you should rethink open-raising offsuit connectors?

(Note - I have no opinion on how you play - it's just an observation)

einbert · #15 06-13-2005, 08:49 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think the range you're implying for the button here is too limited. There are a total of 2 combinations that have you at worse than 6-to-1 before the flop. There are many hands in the range that have you at 3-to-1, even money and a few combinations that you dominate. IMO, this is an easy call.

[/ QUOTE ]

This kind of analysis doesn't really work in this case because Fnord and his opponent aren't going to be all in before the flop.

[ QUOTE ]
Folding here seems to me to be conceeding that you don't play well post-flop. If that's the case then maybe you should rethink open-raising offsuit connectors?

[/ QUOTE ]
With a tight button, opening QJo on the cutoff doesn't take a hell of a lot of postflop skills to show a profit. Just my opinion.

crunchy1 · #16 06-13-2005, 09:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think the range you're implying for the button here is too limited. There are a total of 2 combinations that have you at worse than 6-to-1 before the flop. There are many hands in the range that have you at 3-to-1, even money and a few combinations that you dominate. IMO, this is an easy call.

[/ QUOTE ]
This kind of analysis doesn't really work in this case because Fnord and his opponent aren't going to be all in before the flop.

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I understand what you are saying. This isn't a "pokerstove killed the pokerstar" [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] reply. My point was just that we have good immediate odds against the majority of hands in the button's range at this point. Furthermore, whatever we don't have now - will be fairly easy to recover postflop.

Pat Southern · #17 06-13-2005, 01:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/...t=all&vc=1

"There are hands you might consider folding for three bets behind you after making it two" - David Sklansky

If this is true, wouldn't QJo be one of those hands?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, with QJ you'll have a pretty good idea where you are on the flop. I think a hand like A5o would be the type of hand that he's talking about, since you pretty much need to flop 2 pair to be comfortable with your hand.