Marginal River Value Bet

[shemp]

6 handed is practically shorthanded. Once it gets folded to cutoff, it is shorthanded. Somebody who thinks their hand has showdown value will call the river. In part, and this is HOW FISH THINK LEVEL II, because you continue to bet.

[kurosh]

Just out of curiousity, I'm really not trying to be an ass here, are you beating the 30/60 or 15/30?

[daryn]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
Just out of curiousity, I'm really not trying to be an ass here, are you beating the 30/60 or 15/30?

[/ QUOTE ]

you can't tell from his posts?

[kurosh]

From his posts, I seriously doubt he is. But if that's true, I don't understand why he's staying at these limits.

[creedofhubris]

[ QUOTE ]
A tough part about transitioning from no-limit to limit is that you must value bet WAY more.

[/ QUOTE ]

Great post. I particularly like this piece of advice, since whenever I play limit now I find myself checking too many rivers.

[Vagos]

Hmmm, I guess I'm one of the few who likes checking the river? I'd like to think value betting is one of my strengths at limit but I just don't like it here. Bruiser check-3 bets here, so most players are going to slow down and start check-calling with probably any Jack in fear that Bruiser has trips. He will not pay off with T9, 89, T8, etc. And in the event he had something like KQd, J6d, Axd, he's going to c/r you on the river! It might be a little close, but I say good check Bruiser.

-Andy

[shemp]

Work backwards. AJ, KJ, any 7 are extremely unlikely to shudown. I suspect QJ would be loathe to shutdown as well. That doesn't leave too many better top pairs. More importantly, though, a shorthanded hand doesn't occur in a vacuum. If you are unwilling to bet top pair when last to act in spots like this because you are trying to foil river c/r's from backdoor flushes and balancing it against a range of showdownable hands that your opponent will finally abandon, something is either wrong with your game or with your opponent's game and this hand doesn't matter.

[James282]

Exactly shemp - after I made my last post I thought about going and editing again and commenting on his hand-reading - a 7 is nearly impossible given his flop play and AJ and KJ are insanely unlikely from a player who is "kinda lag." Furthermore, your comments about the metagame influence of checking behind top pair is key because it basically says to thinking players "my river bets are only awesome hands and bluffs," making you MUCH easier to play against on the river.
-James

[theBruiser500]

James I have a couple of big qualms with your post. I agree that once he gets to the river with a pocket pair he will call, I don't think he gets to the river anywhere near 100% of the time with all pocket pairs i beat though. I 3 bet the flop with very limited draws, and bet turn he will probaby give me credit for something.

Also ace high?? I can see him doing that preflop, then raising the flop to get it HU and whatever assumign PFR probably didn't hit flup, but then I 3 bet he must get scared. Everyone likes to take one off on the flop so he can call my 3 bet, but I think he'll fold ace high to my turn bet most of the time.

[Peter_rus]

There is completely no reason to bet river, IMHO.