A strategy of calling down after facing heat... - Page 2

rmarotti · #11 05-21-2005, 05:40 AM

I'd do it because people raise the flop a lot when they shouldn't. Only the cap is mildly annoying.

chesspain · #12 05-21-2005, 09:14 AM

Well, I won one and lost one:

In Hand 1, opponent showed K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], and MHIG

In Hand 2, opponent showed A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], and MHING.

WillMagic · #13 05-21-2005, 09:37 AM

First hand is fine.

Second hand...I'm leaning towards a river fold. AK and AJ check behind on the river - so when he bets I can't put him on a single hand you beat.

EDIT: Just to let you know, I did not read the results before posting this...

Will

Nick C · #14 05-21-2005, 10:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Given the increased amount of aggression I've been facing at 3/6, I played the following two hands with Feeney's advice in mind--which states that when one moves up to a higher limit where the play is more aggressive, it can be a reasonable strategy to simply call down aggressive players when one has a good, but not great, hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sometimes I think I take this idea too far, but when I'm up against very aggressive players, I find myself doing this a lot too.

Garbonzo · #15 05-21-2005, 10:36 AM

Some options I considered when reading these hands.

Hand 1: When raised on the flop, I am unlikelty to 3 bet this hand. Though honestly I do not believe I am agressive enough, so it could very well be wrong. However, I would checkraise a safe turncard. And either lead the river again on a safe card or check to induce a bet from a worse hand or missed draw.

Hand 2: I usually cap 10-10 preflop. People tend to say things like "this lets you see where you are" or "defines your hand", and while I am not sure how true these statements tend to be. In this case it may allow you to get away from the hand when villain continues with pressure....assuming he/she is reasonable....

I am suprised that I didn't see mentions of either of these in the comments. That is, hand 1, checkraise a safe turn, hand 2, cap preflop....and it makes me wonder if my advice is way off baase?

chesspain · #16 05-21-2005, 10:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Some options I considered when reading these hands.

Hand 1: When raised on the flop, I am unlikelty to 3 bet this hand. Though honestly I do not believe I am agressive enough, so it could very well be wrong. However, I would checkraise a safe turncard. And either lead the river again on a safe card or check to induce a bet from a worse hand or missed draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem with waiting until the turn to checkraise is that if my opponent is on a draw (on this draw-heavy board), then he may check behind on the turn--unless he has a very good hand, if which case I may well get three-bet.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2: I usually cap 10-10 preflop. People tend to say things like "this lets you see where you are" or "defines your hand", and while I am not sure how true these statements tend to be. In this case it may allow you to get away from the hand when villain continues with pressure....assuming he/she is reasonable....

I am suprised that I didn't see mentions of either of these in the comments. That is, hand 1, checkraise a safe turn, hand 2, cap preflop....and it makes me wonder if my advice is way off baase?

[/ QUOTE ]

What surprises me is that not a single respondant has suggested that in Hand 2 I consider checkraising the flop(?)

Garbonzo · #17 05-21-2005, 10:53 AM

Hand 1: That makes sense. I think it is very opponent dependent, after the flop raise many seem to follow through with a turn raise regqrdless if they hit the flop.....but your comment feels right.

Hand 2: When you checkraise the flop, then what's the plan if 3 bet, and if he calls and then raises the turn, are you calling down or can you get away from it? I ask because I feel like I often loose more than necessary in these situations.

Do you think capping with 10-10 is wrong?

WillMagic · #18 05-21-2005, 11:04 AM

Heh...yeah, I missed that whole leading out on the flop thing.

Honestly I don't think it matters that much whether you lead out or check-raise here, because you really aren't going to know if he has AK or not until he makes his river decision, and check-raising won't change that.

Will

wildwood · #19 05-21-2005, 11:19 AM

Hand#2 If you cap preflop, it makes it harder to get away from the hand if you get a flop/action you don't like, but I'm more likely to cap against a loose player. I think the flop ck raise is a good idea with the intention of folding to a 3 bet. Gives you a chance to get away from the hand on the cheap street. If he just calls the ck raise, I think your pocket pair has a chance.

my 2c

Nick C · #20 05-21-2005, 07:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What surprises me is that not a single respondant has suggested that in Hand 2 I consider checkraising the flop(?)

[/ QUOTE ]

I considered it (before responding), but I decided this:

(1) A checkraise could be good if Button holds specifically JJ and will fold it. And actually, getting MP2 to fold JJ, if he will and by some chance that's what he has, would also be good, so long as you're ahead of Button.

(2) However, if you're ahead, most likely the only unique overcard you have to worry about from MP2 is a jack (unless by some chance Button has 88/77). I guess if MP2 has a jack, he may have some straight potential too, but you do hold two of the tens.

(3) I thought it would be hard to get Button to give up with AK prior to the river anyway. Upon reflection, though, I'm not so sure about this, since he's decent and might worry about being reverse-dominated on a turn blank.

Hmm. I think there's a better case to be made for a flop checkraise than I realized at first. However, there is also a good chance you're behind and Villain won't fold. But if he 3-bets the flop, it would be easier to get away from your hand unimproved on the turn, and the same is true if he waits and then pops the turn. Taking a line that involves folding prior to the river would give up your chance of spiking a set, though. (But in the bet-call line you actually took, I think I would have seriously considered check-folding the turn instead of check-calling, if I hadn't picked up gutshot outs. On the other hand, if I did check-fold the turn, the chances I'd just dumped the best hand would be better than they would be if I had taken a flop checkraise line and had gotten played back at.)

All right. I guess I think it's complicated. A flop checkraise seems like a decent play to me, and so does leading the flop instead.