A strategy of calling down after facing heat...

chesspain · #1 05-20-2005, 08:43 PM

Although I have been a solid winner in the Party 2/4 game [ +2.36 after 25K hands], I have yet to be able to turn a profit playing 3/6 [ -0.34 after 15K hands]. Consequently, I have spent most of the past few months in the cozy, confines of stress-free 2/4, although I felt that it was time for me to face my fears--and/or my leaks--and return to 3/6, even though my schedule leads me to play mostly during daytime hours EST, when the 3/6 games aren't exactly fish ponds. In addition, given monitor limitations, I play only two tables at a time.

Given the increased amount of aggression I've been facing at 3/6, I played the following two hands with Feeney's advice in mind--which states that when one moves up to a higher limit where the play is more aggressive, it can be a reasonable strategy to simply call down aggressive players when one has a good, but not great, hand. In each hand, PT stats suggested that my opponent was TAG, although I did not have enough hands on either player for a reliable read on their post-flop play.

Hand #1:

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: chesspain is SB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP1 calls, 4 folds, chesspain completes, BB checks.

Flop: (3 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
chesspain bets, BB raises, MP1 folds, chesspain 3-bets, BB caps, chesspain calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
chesspain checks, BB bets, chesspain calls.

River: (7.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
chesspain checks, BB bets, chesspain calls.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

Hand 2:

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: chesspain is UTG+1 with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, chesspain raises, 2 folds, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Button 3-bets, 2 folds, chesspain calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (10.33 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
chesspain bets, MP2 folds, Button raises, chesspain calls.

Turn: (7.16 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
chesspain checks, Button bets, chesspain calls.

River: (9.16 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
chesspain checks, Button bets, chesspain calls.

Final Pot: 11.16 BB

Jake (The Snake) · #2 05-20-2005, 08:47 PM

I play these types of hands similarly and it seems like every time I am ahead the villain catches something. I can't win [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Anyway, I'm also interested to know if there is a better way to play these types of hands.... I suck HU.

shaundeeb · #3 05-20-2005, 08:58 PM

Only thing I might do differently is raise on hand #2 on the turn for a free showdown. You are calling his bet anyway but he might not bet and let you raise if one of your 6 ours to improve comes.
Also, if you raise the turn and he does a stop and go on the river you can easily fold.

Nick C · #4 05-20-2005, 08:59 PM

In hand 1, I think BB quite likely has two pair or maybe a set (and a boat by the river), but I would probably call down too, hoping to see T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or something.

I'd feel like I was making a crying call on the river, though, since now my kicker doesn't even play.

Hand 2: I would consider folding to the flop raise but then probably call anyway.

Then, after I'd picked up four new potential outs on the turn, I'd call again.

On the river, I guess I might make the crying call, but I really doubt Button is continuing to fire with AK. Once in awhile, after making the crying call, I would be pleasantly surprised, though.

chesspain · #5 05-20-2005, 09:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Only thing I might do differently is raise on hand #2 on the turn for a free showdown. You are calling his bet anyway but he might not bet and let you raise if one of your 6 ours to improve comes.
Also, if you raise the turn and he does a stop and go on the river you can easily fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

You do realize in Hand #2 that I'm out of position, so checkraising is unlikely to get to me a free showdown--but is very likely to get me three-bet when I pretty much have to call the reraise given my gutshot outs.

Nick C · #6 05-20-2005, 09:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Although I have been a solid winner in the Party 2/4 game [ +2.36 after 25K hands], I have yet to be able to turn a profit playing 3/6 [ -0.34 after 15K hands]. Consequently, I have spent most of the past few months in the cozy, confines of stress-free 2/4, although I felt that it was time for me to face my fears--and/or my leaks--and return to 3/6, even though my schedule leads me to play mostly during daytime hours EST, when the 3/6 games aren't exactly fish ponds. In addition, given monitor limitations, I play only two tables at a time.

[/ QUOTE ]

In my (somewhat limited) experience, Party 3/6 is significantly more difficult than Party 2/4. I think a big part of the reason for this is that you just don't get paid off as well when you have a big hand. I'm over 10K hands in and am still trying to adjust.

And I mostly play in the evening/late-night hours, when I'd imagine the games are better.

prayformojo · #7 05-20-2005, 09:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Only thing I might do differently is raise on hand #2 on the turn for a free showdown. You are calling his bet anyway but he might not bet and let you raise if one of your 6 ours to improve comes.
Also, if you raise the turn and he does a stop and go on the river you can easily fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I'm missing something here. Why is throwing out 2 BB on the turn to buy the possibility of a "free" showdown better than paying a guaranteed maximum of 2 BB to see the showdown?

wildwood · #8 05-21-2005, 12:07 AM

Hand #1, I probably would not 3 bet tp no kicker on a 2 flush board with possible straight draws. AJ, AK, is a gutshot with overcards, and KJ or J9 is a nice open ender. The bb flop cap probably means the flop hit him pretty hard or he's got a great draw. I don't put him on an overpair since no pf raise. I think calling down here is reasonable since alot of draws didn't get there.

Hand #2, The button may have reraised pf to fold the blinds out and isolate. I probably would not lead into the pf 3 better with 2nd pair. I think calling down here works; it may induce bluffing here if he has overcards.

Being out of position on both hands makes it more difficult.

just my 2c (I'm learning myself)

nubs · #9 05-21-2005, 01:15 AM

In hand one I do not understand the threebet on the flop. Do you think he has a worse queen a ten or a draw most of the time? A reasonable player would want to keep in the third player. If this is an opponent who frequently uses the free card play a stop-n-go seems like a good plan. Then when faced with agression on the big street his hand is better defined. Enough of my rambling back to lurking.

AdamL · #10 05-21-2005, 02:26 AM

Hand #1 -- why do you give so much action on the flop here? Seriously, I don't, so I'm asking.