Flopped set - misplayed on every street?

[Tim W.]

JTG51,
If it's very loose and passive, you want to tighten up. And 44 UTG+1 is not tight. I would have folded pre-flop.

I'm down at Mohegan pretty regularly, I'll keep an eye out for you. You always play 3/6? It would be nice to meet a 2+2er.

Tim W.

[JTG51]

If it's very loose and passive, you want to tighten up. And 44 UTG+1 is not tight. I would have folded pre-flop.

I couldn't disagree more strongly, for reasons already listed in this thread.

Are you implying that you would play small pairs from EP in a tight aggressive game, or would you just never play 44 from EP?

You always play 3/6?

I almost never go to Mohegan and play 3/6 even less. Only when I'm going down with friends and want to play with them.

It would be nice to meet a 2+2er.

I agree, hopefully we'll meet up sometime.

[JTG51]

If people are raising with T9s before the flop, there is a chance that this game is not passive enough to play 44 UTG+1.

I was surprised to see his hand, but that was hardly typical for the game. The button only raised one or two other times preflop in the hour or so I played with him. I think at least 50% of the preflop raises came from me, just the way I like it. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[rharless]

I wasn't very happy with my play

I guess you wouldn't have liked my play either, as I would have done the same on the preflop, turn, and river. I think on the flop I would have bet/3bet since there are so many people to trap, between me and the raiser.

Too bad you didn't fill up!! [img]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

I don't know why you're getting so much flack for limping with a small pair EP in a loose and passive game. I would easily do the same without a doubt.

[cferejohn]

But if the A is *not* out there, you could well get the J[img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img], or even K[img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] to fold.

[Jeffage]

"I don't know why you're getting so much flack for limping with a small pair EP in a loose and passive game."

I agree. I think it is because people would rather base their preflop decisions on Lee Jones than situational logic...to quote MM, poker is not blackjack, and there are many grey areas where you simply have to play poker well and make good decisions. But to the newbies, it's ok...at least you are starting with a foundation (many of us didn't, including me..unless u count Rounders hehe). Just know that your ideas and insights on the game should continue to grow if you want to move up and be successful and participating here is a very good start down that profitable road.

Jeff

[Lee Jones]

I think my chances of being good on the river were considerably less
than 1 in 16.

Boy, unless you know your man awfully well, that's a strong statement. That's what - 6% accuracy? I'm looking at three (not four) spades, and no straight possible (IIRC). And I have a set.

I'm never ever that sure in a situation like that. But maybe you read better than I do.

Regards, Lee

[Lee Jones]

I agree that the call/check-reraise sequence from the CO is pretty terrifying. Looks like he was planning to wait until the turn to decloak, but a war broke out on the flop and he decided to fire too.

But here's another scenario: A [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] K [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] (or another non-spade big card). He's planning to hit his draw cheap, then realizes that he's got tons of company willing to jam it up, so now he can pump his draw for value. Believe me, I could easily play it just that way.

Now the ace comes on the turn and he thinks "Whoo-hoo! Top pair, nut flush draw, let's gamble." Nobody puts a play on him on the turn so he likes his hand enough to bet the river. Again, that could be me.

If there's a one in 16 chance that your guy had the series of thoughts I just suggested, you better call the river. I'm expecting your cards to hit the muck face down, but that's different than it being wrong to call.

I would say that in the situation you had on the flop (set with flush possible), you don't want to shut people out. In most cases, one of two things is true: (1) You're in the lead and a bunch of singleton spades are drawing against you, or (2) there's already a flush made. You're drawing to fill up, everybody else has a big singleton spade and is drawing to another spade (perhaps dead against the flopped nuts).

In either case, you're not going to shut out anybody. And it doesn't matter to you whether you have one opponent or eight - they're all drawing at the same cards to beat you. In case #2, you don't care who's in front and who's drawing - if the board pairs you shut them all out.

Therefore, you shouldn't try to shut anybody out. Don't check-raise to shut people out. That just reduces your pot odds while you are (or might be) drawing to fill up.

So, if you're going to unleash a raise, be sure to do it when you're sure you'll get plenty of company in the pot. And I wouldn't raise on the turn at all. You might very well be drawing and the more company the better.

Regards, Lee

[Vehn]

I think you played it fine but at a live game you can fold the river here. Well.. my live game. As for all the people saying you can't play 44 here you're wrong. [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img] But I would only play it here when there as an EP limper next to me, I wouldn't open limp with it. Then again, I don't open limp.

[34TheTruth34]