quiz

[Tim W.]

J.A.,
How do we know he's unsophisticated? Mike l. just said that we don't have a good read on him, as he's been at the table for only 15 minutes. You might very will be right, but you can't make that read just yet.

[J.A.Sucker]

You ask "How do we know he's unsophisticated?" I always assume my opponents are not tricky unless proven otherwise. Because I don't have a read makes this an even easier call than if I had a read and knew he was a bad opponent. My opinion is if the pot is largish, and I've got something to show down, I call late in the hand.

[gamblermhb21]

It seems to me your best play is folding. You might be drawing dead and with that many people in the pot someone is likley to beat you. Also you said that there are some poor players in the game. It's possible that someone stayed in with a 8,9 suited and has 2 pair already. Even a good player would call with 89 suited in a multiway pot for 1 bet pre-flop, remember they only need to call your raise since they intially called the old mans bet
cut your loses while you still can and fold.

[elysium]

hi mike
raise: never; there are too many over-callers and your hand is only strong, it's not a powerhouse. your position is terrible on this round, and the odds of a two-pair are too great. also, flush draws are out, and while you want to make the draws pay the fullest amount, you don't like the fact that everyone has already put in a bet and will not likely fold to the raise. they're still getting correct odds to call the raise, unless the BB reraises, and you can't like that a whole lot, so call.
call: always; you have excellent position now and the action ends with you.
fold: never here. if the BB was a rock, then chip, i don't know mike, i guess you would still never fold because of your position. you've got to call here. if you're next to last to act and he's a rock, then maybe 20%, something like that. fold maybe 15 to 20 percent of the time, when you don't have position and that BB is a rock. that's not what you have here so i call everytime.

[Vehn]

Since old men with baseball caps and top pair frequently think I'm full of chit he's most likely betting his top pair again on the turn. But the 3 people calling in between us makes me think there's not a lot of river cards I like so I just call 80% of the time and raise the other 20% when I'm feeling frisky. I can't imagine folding here.

[cosmo kramer]

On a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being like least and 10 being liked most I believe-
raise-1 out of 10
call-3 out of 10
fold-8 out of 10

BB called two cold but didn't bet out. I think he would bet out top pair in this situation, so he has a draw or a monster of nothing. His calling two cold makes me think one of the first two. He then leads on the turn, knowing you are acting last and you raise befored flop and on the flop. He knows if he checks it would be checked to you and a check raise would be no good if he does have a good hand. So he bets, hoping you will raise after all call. I think you are beat and that is why I like a fold best.

"Giddyup!!!!!!!" Cosmo Kramer

[Zeno]

To recap: You have QQ and raise preflop

"bb is an old man w/ a baseball cap and.... "

"flop: 9s5h4d."

"the turn is a the 8s and the bb comes out betting. there are 3 callers to you. what's your play now?

The bb may be the least of your problems, it is one of the three mollusks in the middle that will win the pot.


From out in left field the choice is simple - Fold, 100%

-Zeno

[Diplomat]

Elysium,

please explain how raising gives you bad position and calling gives you good position. Your comments in raising and in calling, related to position, are inconsistent.

Is folding so bad? Why would the BB, a generally tight player, bet into a crowded and protected pot? I think you are beat here, potentially badly beat. I'm moving fold up to my #1 choice, but only slightly ahead of calling. Also, I don't think merely position can dictate a turn call as you suggest, although it does play a factor in the decision.

-Diplomat

[mike l.]

it's a familiar story.

boy meets QQ. boy raises preflop w/ QQ against large field. boy is happy when A or K doesnt fall on flop and raises again. weakish tightish seeming, but unknown bb bets into large field on turn card. boy makes wise fold w/ QQ fearing he's drawing dead. river comes a 5 and bb bets again. bb's A9o takes down large pot while boy stares on in shock. boy posts to 2+2 hoping his play wasnt completely unreasonable, but knowing he'd much rather have those hundreds of dollars in chips then have been right. the end.

[Rick Nebiolo]

Mike,

I'm not sure of the percentage format of your question but I think calling is by far my first choice followed by raising (a distant second). I wouldn't fold here.

Yeah you could be drawing dead to a straight but in all likelihood you are looking at two pair or some sort of pair/draw hand (even old white guys in caps make this bet). You aren't a favorite to win but you are a money favorite to take down enough pots when you spike a set or two pair on the river.

I'm guessing you raised. The case for that may be that you will be three bet with sets or straights and when you aren't you make the draws or weak hands in between pay. The problem with your raise (if you made it) is that your cutoff pre flop raise tends to mark you with overcards or an overpair to this flop and you make it too easy for a tricky player to play back at you.

~ Rick