The origin of Logic

[Little Fishy]

your reasoning is very flawed...

first off the Bible didn't come from the greek language so your reverse translation makes no sense.

the "word" refered to in John 1:1-3 is Christ. have you ever wondered why catholics repeat before recieving comunion "I am not worthy but only say the word and I shall be healed"? they aren't refering to individual forgiveness/ redemption. they are refering to The WORD aka christ that G-d spoke into existence with the birth of all that is. basically you're using a missunderstood concept to try and prove something unworldy that cannot be proved through any means other than faith alone...

[Hermlord]

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"I am not proposing that consciousness, sense, or drugs act in a predictable or uniform way. "


That's a relief.

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Well, that's why I add these little disclaimers. Otherwise I get all sorts of "no, something different happened to my friend when he did acid" replies instead of any discussion about what I'm saying.

All generalizations fail.

[Little Fishy]

You assume randomness= G-d

there is only rendomness in the prescence of comparative non randomness ie order

therefore randomness cannot be everything because therefore it would no longer be random

either out of randomness or with randomness must come order

ie in a sequence of infinite coin flips the pattern HTHTHTHTHT... will appear an infinite number of times this pattern is a specific ordered sequence of the greater randomness...

in the end when randomness trully reaches infinite proportions these sequences of order of infinite length will be drown out by the greater randomness...


ok so lets campare to a christian world view.

Randomness=G-d=Goodness=Love exists

Randomness=G-d=Goodness=Love expands by its own nature ie creates heaven and angels

this leads to the creation of an opposite force ie order ie the devil

randomness by its nature creates more randomness in likeness (be expansion it creates random subsets) to itself (ie man)

those imiges of the greater randomness follow the same path that randomness followed thus containing order or the appearence of order (the life of man)

as these subsets of random continue to grow they will inevitably become random as well.
as randomness truly becomes infinite everthing that it encompasses will also become infinite (ie the end of the word and everything is in G-d worshiping him)


so purnell by assuming G-d is randomness I guess you just became a christian


ps the point of this post is to show the ignorance of assuming that by giving things in our own world definitions or accepting world views by their own confines we will never be able to prove or disprove the existence of G-d or a higher power. the only way to prove G-d exists is through faith and faith alone, likewise this is the only way to disprove him

[Little Fishy]

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Then, considering the illusion of Time

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theologians would say that god exists in a completed and perfect state; but from the point-of-view from any portion of his/its creation, there could only be a continuing expansion, or a never-ending fulfillment of divine being, that is perceived by the observor

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but by G-d transcending out "illusion of time" isn't he both always complete and always incomplete all at once??

of course these are your qualifications not mine

[Little Fishy]

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Not sure I'm even spelling his name right

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just pencil in two dots over that 'o' and you've got it right. I'm pretty sure godel's theorem was later expanded on to show that by defining the natural numbers as a countable set (ie f(n)=n) and thus be defining it by itself, you could not show that it was both complete and consistant within the confines of itself as a system... I don't think that makes much sense, I'll read up on it...

you did get the spelling right though [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[udontknowmickey]

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your reasoning is very flawed...

first off the Bible didn't come from the greek language so your reverse translation makes no sense.

the "word" refered to in John 1:1-3 is Christ. have you ever wondered why catholics repeat before recieving comunion "I am not worthy but only say the word and I shall be healed"? they aren't refering to individual forgiveness/ redemption. they are refering to The WORD aka christ that G-d spoke into existence with the birth of all that is. basically you're using a missunderstood concept to try and prove something unworldy that cannot be proved through any means other than faith alone...


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Well, all our oldest new testimant manuscripts are in Greek, (though there is a hypothesis that Matthew was written in Aramaic or Hebrew, but no strong evidence for that). John's Gospel was definitely Greek as far as any historian testifies, and that's the verse I was referencing.

I agree that the "Word" is Christ, but I also said that the greek word "logos" can also be translated Logic, Word, or Reason. Thus the Logic is God, or Reason is God, or the Word is God. All of them are acceptable translations. The heavy emphasis of mine upon "Logos = Logic" is because of the discussion at hand.

Once again, I am NOT denying that Christ is the Word that John is referencing in John 1:1, but merely pointing out that Logic or Reason would be acceptable translations.

The reason for this "translation" is to give evidence for why Logic is a universal trancendant concept and support for why I believe logic flows from God's very existence.

On a completely side note, Christ is God and was not part of the things that was spoken into being when God "spoke." Christ is God is the Holy Spirit. Trinity. Just an FYI