77 against a PFR

[meep_42]

[ QUOTE ]
OK. And how's the flop 3-bet -- standard?

[/ QUOTE ]

You're head's up, what do you think about a stop'n'go?

I think he's folding some overcard hands on the turn to a bet on this ragged board, and you're losing 1 SB less when behind.

-d

[billyjex]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i don't see any other way to play it without a read.

what was your plan for either the turn/river if raised.

if you lost this, i think you got off cheap on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was going to fold to a raise on the turn or river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like that. I would pay him off.

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
OK. And how's the flop 3-bet -- standard?

[/ QUOTE ]

very

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think a cr blows monkey turds. What sort of equity do you think you have here anyway?


[/ QUOTE ]

I guess I'm only thinking of c/ring the pfrer's bet when he bets his position if the others fold or maybe if we get one caller. If multiple call I'd wait for the turn. Its something I've been struggling with and I really don't know how to deal with it. On a board like this maybe villain raised his overcards (specifically AK) when we bet a fair amount, but on other non-paired and ragged boards, I think we're only getting raised by bigger pairs and isolating ourselves in a hopeless situations. At the same time, I think AK and other overcards will bet last to act 75%+ against a field of 4, especially on this board. Thats why I think if we're putting in two bets on the flop, we probably have more equity when c/r a late position bet than when betting into the pfr and getting raised. I just don't see the pfr taking a free card on this board very often.

If more people call, then our equity probably sucks and waiting for the turn isn't a bad option. If another blank falls, then maybe we could proceed. I'm willing to admit this may be bad thinking, but its a situation I've struggled with and wouldn't mind discussing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here is the thing. Your hand blows. You only want to play this if you can isolate the pfr. You do this by betting into him and hoping he raises.

It has nothing to do with him betting the flop if you check to him.

Krishan

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
OK. And how's the flop 3-bet -- standard?

[/ QUOTE ]

You're head's up, what do you think about a stop'n'go?

I think he's folding some overcard hands on the turn to a bet on this ragged board, and you're losing 1 SB less when behind.

-d

[/ QUOTE ]

Stop and go sucks. If you are planning on leading the turn, take the extra bet and 3-bet the flop. Your ahead more often that you are behind.

If he releases 6 outs on the turn in a 8 BB pot, we are not unhappy.

Krishan

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i don't see any other way to play it without a read.

what was your plan for either the turn/river if raised.

if you lost this, i think you got off cheap on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was going to fold to a raise on the turn or river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like that. I would pay him off.

[/ QUOTE ]

With the flop plan of bet-3 bet, you need to be able to fold to a turn raise.

River is closer.

Krishan

[meep_42]

But we're making him make an unprofitable call with overs on the turn if we don't 3-bet.

The call is profitable if we do.
(8.16:1 if we 3b the flop, 7.16:1 if we don't -- and we don't have the chance to get capped when behind.)

Actually, if he *knows* we're on an overpair, he's got 6 clean outs and only 38 unknown cards (both our hands, 4 community cards -- all his outs are likely good because he's probably got 2 broadway and we'd have raised a broadway PP pre-flop.)

I think I always 3-bet this, but I was trying to look at it a little differently.

-d

[undathesea]

I read the other posts... I think your play is fine and you are giving too much credit to the donk for having a good hand. The river bet is fantastic... it's a value bet. You make money when he makes mistakes. It's obvious that he's not very confident of his hand... otherwise he'd be raising you again.

Win or lose, you'll get good information on how this player plays... and when you get a monster he'll tend to pay off your raises as he doesn't trust you any longer. Great play. What was the outcome?

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
But we're making him make an unprofitable call with overs on the turn if we don't 3-bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

And an unprofitable fold that he will likely make if we do

[ QUOTE ]

I think I always 3-bet this, but I was trying to look at it a little differently.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't you have it right.

Krishan

[meep_42]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't you have it right.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's never a reason not to re-examine the possibilities. You can't know you're right unless you eliminate all the other choices as wrong. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

-d