Winning too much

[Burnt Toast]

Hello Gilly,

I too have experienced the problems of trying to hold together a home game. I made a recent post on 3-12-03 about enforceing rules (I was pleased with the reponses I got here). I also experience the problem of winning too much to keep the game together. However I know I haven't played against these players long enough to make this statment based on the adequate playing hrs. But for someone who does well in many a casino/online game it is tough to find "home game players" that even come close to having the same understanding of the game. Of course I always like to be cautious about this stuff, but you are often dealing with people that do not understand basic rules let alone strategy (see previous post).

My game is mostly with people who I played with several years ago in college. Back then I knew little. Since then I have studied and played the game quite rigorously. They have only learned from what I have been telling them recently. Some of them will listen ocasionally and pick up things from time to time. Many of them won't listen at all. Some of them are in denial that I could possibly have learned strategy, for a game that they see as pure luck, well enough to easily take their money.

Anyway my game is still relatively new, but here are a few things that I have tried and/or might try.

I have from time to time tried to slow my winnings down by adjusting my game. I honestly do not care moneywise if I win or lose. I do sometimes care about pride however. Some of these players realize how much I have played in casinos/internet card rooms, and I sometimes feel that I am making myself look stupid when these inexperienced and less interested (some are smart enough to understand the game but don't bother, some may not be) beat me over a short stretch. I try not to let this effect me, because I would rather keep the game going.

The problem with switching gears to either make more or less against your opponents, is that it can blow up on you in the short run (for example the last hour or so in a night). especially if you are playing games where the pot escalates. I think the most effective thing to do to slow your earnings is to play more loose passive. Then if you want you can also fold a winning hand from time to time. Be careful not to be obvious though, since this could be viewed as insulting to some.

Another thing I do is always offer help/advise when people want it. But don't be pushy if they don't. I always help people read there hand. For example, when a player turns over his hand against mine I always examine his to make sure that he isn't folding the winner.

Another thing I suggested to a couple of players (I don't know if we'll ever do it) was have me buy in with a handicap. Currently we play dealers choise. This often gets mixed in with a bunch of high ante/low strategy games. I find these games kind of boring, but it does level the playing field. However, for my own enjoyment I suggested to some of the more interested players that we try playing some more strategic games. For example just playing Holdem like at a casino. This is my best game, and I would feel bad trying to play this game well against my inexperienced friends. Thats where I suggested a buyin handicap. I dont know if anyone else has tried this, but I suggest buying my chips at a set ratio. Say for every $4 in chips I buy I must Buy $1 in chips for the rest of the players to split. Its just an idea. It is kind of like supplying drinks and food. I do like the idea of buying strippers though.

Just a few ideas

Toast

[gilly]

Thanks for the advice. I think playing with a handicap would be seen as insulting to these guys (and most people). Most admit that they are over matched but a few still believe that this is not true.

As far as game selection our game is dealer's choice but we basically play holdem, 7stud hi/low 8 or better, and Omaha hi/low 8 or better.

[Easy E]

Unless they take it as a challange.....

Smacks too much of "I'm SOOOO good, I can give you my money and STILL get it back!"

Can't see that helping in holding your game together. How did it go over?

[oddjob]

i'm kinda in the same boat. not that everyone in my home game is so bad, but there are very bad players, and i'm one of the better ones. we play 25¢/50¢ blinds and it's no limit table stakes. so whatever you got in front of you... anywhere from a dollar to $40.

i definitely take it much easier on them, as i can extract way more money from them. honestly i feel bad. but sometimes it comes back and bites me in the ass.

i know i consider this game purely for fun, so i sometimes play stupid ridiculous hands, and go for stupid draws as well. play on tilt even if i'm not really tilting, but i like to joke about it.

let's be honest, winning is fun, but so is playing crazy wild loose poker sometimes.

[Burnt Toast]

I did not use it yet, and may never use it. I merely mentioned it to one of the players that might be interested in playing more holdem, omaha, and stud. He mentioned it (in my presence) to two of the other players. I am sure other players that I have played with would have a problem with this, but I would not try to perswade them.

The players that were informed have no problem playing house Vs. casino games ocasionally (blackjack, carribean stud etc.). They are all a little intimidated by player Vs Player poker at the casino. I thought it may be because they are afraid that they will be hustled out of too much money for it to be fun.

I thought first we would play low limit holdem. Then we could move to games like Omaha, O8, pot limit, tourney's etc. I see limit holdem as the best starting point. The problem is that game is by far my best. After a few sessions we could mix in a few the other games. Then I would be learnig too. Plus I think they would really enjoy tourneys. It makes sense to me because at my skill level I would never play a pot limit game at a casino. Maybe this is not what they are thinking.

Anyway you are right about holding the game together. This is on hold until the game is more certain. By the way we have played once since my last post on etiquette. The anti-check raiser will porbably never play again, but things went better with the other players. The problem now is that they insisted on playing these escalating pot games and two of them got burned.

Comments always appreciated

Toast

[broomcorn]

with a large variation in abilities, its tough to keep the home game going if you are playing for any type of reasonable stakes.
poker is a constant recruiting process. the better players should be on the lookout for "cowboys" at all times. bookies, sports bettors, golf gamblers, you name it. they all have huge egos and almost none back down when it comes to cards. the bookies are particularly helpful because usually they have access to cash on a regular basis.
unless you have a super rich fish in the game who doesn't mind losing, you need to bring in new players or the game will die.
my home game went on (weekly) for years until 1 month ago. the money has simply run out and the same 2-3 players were winning every single week down the stretch. at 10-20 with 25-50 kill, that gets expensive.

[s_teiger]

You should continue to win but slow it down. I had the same problem a year ago, our game has since broken up for different reasons. I lost some money, but keep your losses small or people will suspect its on purpose. And always, always win with class.

[nicky g]

Play more starting hands. In fact, play far too many starting hands. That way you avoid the boredom of folding hands, cut down your edge a lot, but should still be able to outplay them on post-flop. Could make for a more fun game. That is, you're sure you've not just been getting lucky.