Simple Question?

[Matt D]

You want him to fold. You want hands like 77, duplicate kings and aces (once one king or ace calls, you'd like anyone holding one to call), and any offsuit undercard hands to call.

Elysium is wrong because QQ makes more money with about 4 callers, what I would call a family type pot, than head up.

By the way, when you have the 3c4c on the button, you want to call. You win the pot between 15% and 20% of the time against normal "playable hands".

[Joshua]

that wasn't the pair I meant. But thanks for playing [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

[D.J.]

Why would you want 34s to fold? He has to hit twice to beat you and then still hope the board doesn't pair. Of course he can make a straight, but I'll take my chances, and as far as the flush goes, if I have the Q of his suit, then I'd further want him to call. I'm more afraid of K-2o and A-3o to be worried about 34s. What the hell kind of poker are you guys playing fearing 34s against QQ. Most of the time he's just putting dead money in the pot I'd want him to call hoping for a Q-4-3 flop.

-D.J.

[bernie]

id smile everytime this player calls my raise preflop.
as someone stated, he needs 2 cards to win. his implied odds are crap, and he can get beat by a bigger flush or a redraw should he hit his hand.

"By the way, when you have the 3c4c on the button, you want to call. You win the pot between 15% and 20% of the time against normal "playable hands". "

this is bull. and definitely wrong against most normal 'raising' hands. especially with callers. is this the theory of 'everyone has big cards (eachothers outs) so only little cards remain? heard that one before. but only after they drag a pot, not after they fold the river after missing a draw and paying max for it.

20%? that's a good one. this isnt a hand you want to see the flop with for 2 bets. but hey, if you want to ... go for it

b

[Casey]

I am leaning toward having him fold. True, he is a monster underdog to your pair but any money that he puts in increases the odds for the other four to chase you.

[togilvie]

Wipe that smile off your face. You do, in fact, want him to fold.

There are 11.5 small bets in the pot, so 34s only needs to win 17.4% of the time for calling to be a profitable play. According to TwoDimes.net, 34s will win 21% of the time against QQ.

This decision becomes even easier for him because he has implied odds with a suited connector, while your QQ has reverse implied odds.

Since your opponent's correct play is to call, the FTOP indicates that you are rooting for him to fold.

That said, the FTOP is only universally true when heads-up, so there may be a nuance of multi-way play that I'm missing.

[Tommy Angelo]

"Sorry if this is too simplistic of a question..."

I think it is a fine question. It's my answer that is too simplistic. I want him to fold. I don't know why, or care why. I just know that I do.

Tommy

[bugstud]

just one case in twodimes...I think this would point to a fold.

Qs Qc 184812 28.09 472606 71.82 590 0.09 0.281
Jd Ah 94379 14.34 558587 84.89 5042 0.77 0.147
Jh Th 81031 12.31 571935 86.92 5042 0.77 0.127
7s 7c 90328 13.73 567090 86.18 590 0.09 0.137
9s 8s 97571 14.83 559847 85.08 590 0.09 0.148
4c 3c 104845 15.93 552573 83.98 590 0.09 0.159


Qs Qc 331510 38.97 518184 60.91 974 0.11 0.390
Jd Ah 163546 19.23 680824 80.03 6298 0.74 0.196
Jh Th 100765 11.85 743605 87.41 6298 0.74 0.122
7s 7c 124565 14.64 725129 85.24 974 0.11 0.147
9s 8s 123984 14.57 725710 85.31 974 0.11 0.146

[astroglide]

come on...

you're matching 34s vs qq when there are 4 other people in there. black queens vs 34h (being nice) vs 4 random hands (being nice), 34h only wins 14% of the time. it's getting 5:1 on its bad call, and now needs to make up double because there has been a raise.

if you think the decision becomes easier for him because he has implied odds and you have reverse implied odds, you don't understand the concept of either. he is losing money for every raise there is preflop.

http://izmet.desetka.si/implied.html

[davidross]

I wish you had used one hand with a K in it as well. But I agree based on that you would rather win 10% more often even if the pot was one bet smaller.