Simple Question?

Kevin J · #1 03-20-2003, 08:11 PM

Sorry if this is too simplistic of a question, but Majorkong got me thinking about this...

You raise UTG with QQ and get 4 callers. The button is yet to act holding 34s. Are you rooting for him to fold or call?

SoBeDude · #2 03-20-2003, 08:29 PM

This is an interesting spinoff from my original post. Nice job.

I'm going to toss in my two chips worth in and say you do want him to call. (BTW, he was in the cutoff, not the button)

His flush will beat you like 4% of the time, right? and how often will he make two pair and you won't? I'd say he's a huge underdog here.

-Scott

elysium · #3 03-20-2003, 08:48 PM

i'm going to get counter intuitive here and say that your rooting for him to fold. the reason is that this holding does't like family type pots. on the flop, for example, you may want to strongly consider a check-raise to drive out as many opponents as you can. yes, he has a weak holding, but collectively, these weak holdings can cling one to the other so to speak, and mire you in a bland broth of suck-out chowder. will qq float to the top? not as often as suits my taste buds. now there's little you can do here to discourage the button's contribution, but in the future, if your in a family way with qq, and you have a good aggressive to your right, and many have entered, don't raise but rather call. you want to save the raise out for the turn where you will raise the aggressive on your right and drive out those drawing thinly but collectively lardy on your left.

Kevin J · #4 03-20-2003, 09:01 PM

I'm almost embarrassed to say that I can't confidently come up with the correct answer.

I know that if you hold AK, you probably don't want 98s to call. With a hand like TT (and 4 callers already), you probably shouldn't mind 34s coming in, since you'll most likely need to improve (such as flopping a set, etc.) in order to win.

But is QQ different? That is, there are a few better flops for QQ so you won't necessarily need to improve quite as often. If this is so, then maybe you DO want 34s to fold, since you're chances of winning go UP with each LESS player vying for the pot. I can't really decide, but I'd say that if my chances of winning unimproved are still Ok with 4 callers, then I'd want 34s to fold.

I get a kick out of a friend mine who likes to ask this question:

What is the ideal number of callers after you've raised pre-flop with AA?

His Answer: ALL OF THEM!

Joshua · #5 03-20-2003, 09:07 PM

I say you want him to call. With 4 callers already your main profit will come from flopping a set so at this point I would welcome more callers. But that's only my humble opinion.

Kevin J · #6 03-20-2003, 09:12 PM

Right, but wouldn't you say that QQ has slightly more "win on its own" power against 4 opponents than TT or JJ? Even if this percentage is only very slight, you still might be better off with 1 less player. Other than this, I completely agree with you.

Joshua · #7 03-20-2003, 09:28 PM

It is at times like these I turn to TTH. But it's late (02:26 am here in Sweden) and my computer is tired. Hopefully Mason or some other oracle will step in. In the mean time I will sleep on it. I can think of worse pillows than a pair of queens.

SoBeDude · #8 03-20-2003, 09:41 PM

Be careful, where I live a pair of queens tends to mean two gay men. you sure you want to sleep on that??

-Scott

astroglide · #9 03-21-2003, 01:27 AM

call. he's paying a premium for a hand that needs implied odds preflop, so you're making money right there. the horserace concept only comes in if you know the other players' hands.

PokerPrince · #10 03-21-2003, 02:15 AM

You want him to call with that bunk. He's giving you money in the LR.

PokerPrince