AQ in BB - Page 2

**MR.MANHATTAN** · #11 03-07-2003, 08:13 PM

W/O READING OTHERS OPINIONS ,YET.......U DONE GOOD SON,,,,,,,,LET THE ROCK HAVE THIS HAND...I WOULD LIKE POCKET 8S HERE OR 7-9 SUITED ,THEN I WOULD RE RAISE HIM AND CALL THE CAP.......THEN ON THE FLOP RAISE HIM IF RAGS HIT,,,,,THEY MIGHT EVEN HIT U,,,,,,,O LET ME STOP...YOUSE THINK IM CRAZY ANYWAY....BUT FOLDING A-Q HERE WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO.....EVEN A-K OFF WOULDVE HIT THE MUCK......

**MR.MANHATTAN** · #12 03-07-2003, 08:15 PM

THANK YOU......IM NOT ALONE.....AMEN ...THX DIPLOMAT..I DONT KNOW WHY BUT I FEEL BETTER...

Pot-A · #13 03-07-2003, 09:12 PM

I would play it for one extra bet and check-raise the flop if it was ace or queen high, folding to a reraise. If he'll play AQ and pocket pairs all the way down to 99, he's not really that stoney:

AA, KK, AK, QQ: 24
JJ-99: 18
AJs: 4

The way I figure it you've got 4:3 or 12:11 against you, depending on whether or not he plays the AJs. The pot is giving you 7:2.

Now, if he were to play (by the book) AA-JJ, and Ak, you really should throw it away.

ACPlayer · #14 03-07-2003, 09:46 PM

By my calculation (counting card combinations and weighting with the chances of each of those combinations) your net EV is .38. The pot is laying you 3.5 to 1. Do you like those odds?

ACPlayer · #15 03-07-2003, 10:01 PM

Having said the above. I would tend to want to fold if he was a bit tighter than described and if i felt that he played significantly better. However, realize that you are giving up value.

Q: Is an open raise with 99 or TT in a good game the sign of a true rock? Most of the value in the analysis comes from his holding these pairs a significant number of times (almost 12% of the time). In some games I have been known to limp with at 99 and sometimes TT and sometimes AA and sometimes QJ sooted.

Diplomat · #16 03-07-2003, 11:50 PM

All right, I wanted to give a good response to this, because I think it is still debatable (and I'm up for convincing, please prove me wrong)

The problem I see with AQ is that you share outs with several hands which you will probably have to pay off, and you probably will lose quite a bit...and you probably will not win much if you hand is good.

Take for example the classic Ax v. KK. Say you get a flop like...A94. Against a tighty, he's going to fold this hand pretty quick. Same for QQ, JJ, TT, provided he would raise TT and JJ utg.

Now say you get a flop like AQx, same deal -- unless you are against AA or QQ, or AK. Actually, just about the only hand that will pay you off here is AK, and not even that if he is really tight. But you will loose a -ton- if he has AA or QQ.

The biggest problem I see calling with AQo pre-flop against this fella is that you have a very good chance of making the second best hand which you will likely have to pay off, you share outs with several possible holdings, and you will win very little when you do make a winner (unless you catch a gutshot or something).

My monster holding of 95s ( [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] ) though has some benifits that AQ does not have. Namely:

1. It's suited.
2. It likely shares no outs with the raiser.
3. If you hit your hand (say, 953) you will probably get paid off.
4. There are few hands that you might make that you will have to pay off. You should be able to make top pair and be able to get away from the hand.

I'm making a few assumptions, such as you needing to make a hand to win the pot -- of course, top pair A or Q will beat JJ compared with top pair 5 or 9, but I think that's just about the only benifit to AQ over 95s.

I just see it as being able to win a large pot and be able to play it with confidence, or get away from the hand, versus being hooked into a payoff hand or winning a small pot.

Just a few thoughts for arguments' sake.

-Diplomat

Diplomat · #17 03-07-2003, 11:59 PM

Oh yeah, one more thing.

You might put him on tilt with 95s, more so than with AQo. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

astroglide · #18 03-08-2003, 12:38 AM

being suited does little (read: less than 2% if you go all the way to the river) for you heads up.

i don't understand why this guy would 'pay you off' with a 9-high flop when you have 95s but bulletfold kings vs an axx board. he spews chips with overcards, but not with a made hand?

PokerPrince · #19 03-08-2003, 03:46 AM

I'm still not sure why some of you think this is "debatable". If he is a true rock as described he'll be raising with the big stuff; AA-TT,AKs,AKo,AQs. Not only are you an underdog to all of these hands but you're out of position. Fold your blind and stop being an AceMonkey.

PokerPrince

angelo alba · #20 03-08-2003, 05:07 AM

"He isnt very aggresive post flop, but plays well and never gives a bet away."

So does that mean that if he's holding 99, he'll fold to a raise if overcards fall on the flop? Or that if he's on AJs and the flop misses him, he'll also muck? Doesn't sound like it.

Would anyone call the raise here? If so please tell me why.