Flopping a flush at Party $1000 NL

[creedofhubris]

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Raising doesn't feel quite right for these stack sizes, as you're putting a big portion / all of your stack at risk in a spot where your holding, while strong, is far from the nuts.


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this is probably an obvious comment, but this is not the kind of thinking that drives winning big bet play.

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Turnip, is most of your NL experience from live games? The mid-level internet games play a lot tighter.

[turnipmonster]

I understand that and answered you in the other thread. I posted a hand the other day where I folded a set online, what more do you want [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]?

[rerazor]

I call the flop bet and check raise turn all in barring another heart or paired board. If someone pushes the turn I don't call though.

[Chaostracize]

How do you check raise when you're in position.

I think cold-calling the turn is correct and seeing the action on the river. You may be underrepresenting your hand, but if villain has any respect for you, the flop raise and the turn CC will slow him down.

The river is definitely a value bet, even if it's somewhere around 1/4-1/3 of the pot.

[Chaostracize]

If you're good enough to slow down after the river pairs or another heart comes I think you get more value by calling his turn bet.

[creedofhubris]

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I understand that and answered you in the other thread. I posted a hand the other day where I folded a set online, what more do you want [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]?

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Forgot what I was posting where, my bad.

[elindauer]

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Raising doesn't feel quite right for these stack sizes, as you're putting a big portion / all of your stack at risk in a spot where your holding, while strong, is far from the nuts.


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this is probably an obvious comment, but this is not the kind of thinking that drives winning big bet play.

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Huh? How do you figure? So in your mind, the key to winning NL hold 'em is to always put your whole stack at risk with hands which are normally strong, regardless of any indications that in this hand, it may be no good? Kind of a my-hand-is-good-who-cares-what-you-have strategy?

[elindauer]

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if i had, say, a K high flush and i was villain, i could see check raising this river

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I doubt this very much. I think you're making the assumption that the villain somehow knows exactly what we hold and will play his cards perfectly against us. I'd expect a king high flush to bet the river every time, as he will surely hope he is simply up against a weaker hand that can't let go.

Good luck.
Eric

[elindauer]

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if hero isnt willing to put the chips in here he needs to muck this hand to no bet without seeing the flop

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How do you figure? A flush is often a good hand, but surely you've seen many situations where a flush is no good, haven't you?


When the action goes bet-call-raise to you on a 3-flush board, don't you begin to consider the possiblity that maybe somebody actually has a flush? And when the aggressor sees you smooth call the flop looking to keep people in, and still decides to make a large bet on the turn, doesn't flush enter into the range of hands you think he could have?

Apparently, some people look at their hand preflop and say, ok, if I make any of these hands, I'm going all-in. In this case, it would seem that a flush is one of those hands for 74s. If I make a flush, you say, I'm backing it with my whole stack, hand reading be damned.

I don't think this way. I just try to figure out the range of hands my opponent could have, and then look at my hand and decide how to best play it against that range. Normally when I hold a flush, the best play against the range my opponent could hold is to get as much money in as possible. In this case though, the opponent has shown tremendous strength and I have him on very big hands, many of which beat me. So I start looking at stack sizes, how much am I going to lose when I'm behind, note that I have almost no fold equity when behind, I have no outs when behind, etc.

I'm not convinced that calling is the best play against the range of hands villain could have, but I am convinced that moving in just because you have a flush is faulty logic.

Good luck.
Eric

[fimbulwinter]

IMHO this is a very easy turn push three handed.

fim