Two pp hands. AA & KK...confused in both.

[thesharpie]

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What if UTG bet when I check to him? A c/r won't protect my hand (if it needs it) then. There's a good chance that I'll be looking at 2 bets back to me if the pf 3-bettor decides to raise. If I knew UTG would check to the CO and he would bet then that would work, but without knowing I'd rather retain the lead. Since I capped, it also made more sense to me to lead out. Checking would look dubious/fishy I would think.

Anyone else think a c/r would be better here than just leading out? Or a check/3-bet if it went that way?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think it makes much difference either way, you'll still be giving someone 12.5 to 1 even if the person you want to bets.

And when it comes to getting more money in the pot, leading out could get more in. I think many times this flop is going to get raised allowing you to 3 bet.

[sin808]

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Hand 1: I raise the turn. If 3bet, I intend to check/fold the river.

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I considered that, but if I'm going to invest 3 bets on the turn, wouldn't that cost me 1BB more when I'm behind, and pretty much do away with any showdown value vs. calling down?

If I'm not behind, and he's bluffing at it, wouldn't it be a better to let him continue?

arguments?

[thesharpie]

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[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1: I raise the turn. If 3bet, I intend to check/fold the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I considered that, but if I'm going to invest 3 bets on the turn, wouldn't that cost me 1BB more when I'm behind, and pretty much do away with any showdown value vs. calling down?

If I'm not behind, and he's bluffing at it, wouldn't it be a better to let him continue?

arguments?

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you, raising the turn is pretty pointless.

[sin808]

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And when it comes to getting more money in the pot, leading out could get more in. I think many times this flop is going to get raised allowing you to 3 bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was fully expecting a chance to re-raise the flop when I lead out. I also wasn't prepared to relenquish the lead yet.

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1: I raise the turn. If 3bet, I intend to check/fold the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I considered that, but if I'm going to invest 3 bets on the turn, wouldn't that cost me 1BB more when I'm behind, and pretty much do away with any showdown value vs. calling down?

If I'm not behind, and he's bluffing at it, wouldn't it be a better to let him continue?

arguments?

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you, raising the turn is pretty pointless.

[/ QUOTE ]
What about raising and folding to a 3-bet? If he 3-bets you are certainly behind and probably drawing dead and raising the turn charges him more if he is still drawing to hearts. If you check behind on the river, it also costs you the same as calling down. Is that a horrible line here?

[ArturiusX]

I think the point more is, you'll make more money off a bluffer, and spend less money when he has a better hand than the raise line.

[bonaparte]

grunching.....

You played both these hands the same way I have been playing them, and the same way I would still play them. I would be most scared of losing to AA coming from CO or JJ coming from UTG (KK hand I'm talking about here).

As a side note I had a session not to long ago where I lost with KK twice to someone with AA and then got KK a third time only to split it with somebody also holding KK. So I know how you feel to getting sucked out on these nice hands.

[tiltaholic]

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I get the impression that 1/2 is FPS central, I'm running into alot of passive players who will call down with the nuts the whole way, and even more random donks who call all the way only to catch on the river and raise. It's starting to drive me a bit nutty, and I think it's causing me to call down more often when I should be folding.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey-
I haven't even read the read of your post yet - but what you wrote above isn't true - it just feels that way when you're getting your hat shat in. I experienced the same thing when I moved to 1/2, and then again when I have bad nights at 2/4. Try very hard to stay cool - or it gets expensive and will fuel your "impression" of whatever limit you are having trouble with. ok. ending soap box. now I'll go read your hands.

edit: i'd play both of these hands the same way - and feel dirty about it too. in hand 2 i'd overcall for sanity.

[sin808]

yeah, you are very right.

[istewart]

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I'd check-raise hand 2 on the flop, or fold to the 3-bet on the turn.

You're almost certainly not good.

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You'd fold getting 23:1?