Two pp hands. AA & KK...confused in both.

sin808 · #1 04-17-2005, 02:52 AM

These are from the other night. Both tables were very good with most of the players over 40% vpip and a bit maniacal. Unfortunately, though I've had great luck finding tables, I've been getting my ass handed to me for the last 2k hands or so (-2BB/100). I get the impression that 1/2 is FPS central, I'm running into alot of passive players who will call down with the nuts the whole way, and even more random donks who call all the way only to catch on the river and raise. It's starting to drive me a bit nutty, and I think it's causing me to call down more often when I should be folding. Though my stats don't show this, so maybe I'm calling down in the wrong spots, or I'm just getting the short end of the variance stick- which has been beating me down pretty hard lately. Anyway, this has led me to stare at my screen in wonder more than normal during a hand. These were a couple where I felt dumbfounded and wasn't sure what to do. I could be good, I could be behind, most times I have no idea after seeing so much bizarre crap. I'm posting this from work so I don't have access to my notes on the players involved in these hands. I'll try to post them later..

Hand 1:
Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 4 folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, UTG+2 calls.

yep

Flop: (5.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+2 bets, Hero raises, UTG+2 calls.

yep

Turn: (4.75 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+2 bets, Hero calls.

meh?

River: (6.75 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+2 bets, Hero calls.

#^$^&%#^!@!@#!!!, fold or hope he's playing the board to chop?

Final Pot: 8.75 BB

Hand 2:
Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. MP1 posts a blind of $1.
UTG raises, MP1 (poster) calls, MP2 calls, CO 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero caps, 1 fold, UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

uh huh

Flop: (21 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, CO calls.

ok? after all the pf action no raise on the flop threw me off. Someone sitting on a monster maybe?

Turn: (12.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls, MP2 calls, CO raises, Hero calls, UTG 3-bets, MP2 calls, CO calls, Hero calls.

this is where it gets ugly. I don't really see any place I can fold, but the check/3bet from UTG is pretty scary.

River: (24.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, MP2 folds, CO calls, Hero calls.

fold or overcall? obviously I called, but am I ahead of both players often enough to make the call. I'm thinking the pots pretty big, I may be behind (to UTG), but these guys have been going nutrageous in enough other hands that I don't know where I'm at really. I was pretty sure after the turn that UTG had either TT or JJ, but no idea about the other player.

Final Pot: 27.50 BB

Sorry for posting 2 hands in the same thread, I don't normally. I just wanted to get them up before I forgot about them for the next week, and I hate posting more than 1 thread at a time.

So here, have a 3rd!
Bonus hand- No content...this just made me laugh
Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
5 folds, Hero raises, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (5 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB folds.

Final Pot: 2.50 BB

splashpot · #2 04-17-2005, 02:59 AM

I'd check raise the flop in the KK hand. Leading with a bet doesn't protect your hand. It might be possible to knock someone out with a check raise.

deepsquat · #3 04-17-2005, 03:01 AM

Very hard to get away from both these hands, id prob play them both the same way.

imported_leader · #4 04-17-2005, 03:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Very hard to get away from both these hands, id prob play them both the same way.

[/ QUOTE ]

sin808 · #5 04-17-2005, 05:18 AM

What if UTG bet when I check to him? A c/r won't protect my hand (if it needs it) then. There's a good chance that I'll be looking at 2 bets back to me if the pf 3-bettor decides to raise. If I knew UTG would check to the CO and he would bet then that would work, but without knowing I'd rather retain the lead. Since I capped, it also made more sense to me to lead out. Checking would look dubious/fishy I would think.

Anyone else think a c/r would be better here than just leading out? Or a check/3-bet if it went that way?

ArturiusX · #6 04-17-2005, 05:27 AM

I'd check-raise hand 2 on the flop, or fold to the 3-bet on the turn.

You're almost certainly not good.

adsman · #7 04-17-2005, 05:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
What if UTG bet when I check to him? A c/r won't protect my hand (if it needs it) then. There's a good chance that I'll be looking at 2 bets back to me if the pf 3-bettor decides to raise. If I knew UTG would check to the CO and he would bet then that would work, but without knowing I'd rather retain the lead. Since I capped, it also made more sense to me to lead out. Checking would look dubious/fishy I would think.

Anyone else think a c/r would be better here than just leading out? Or a check/3-bet if it went that way?

[/ QUOTE ]

I lead it but, then again, I'm not very subtle.

aK13 · #8 04-17-2005, 06:30 AM

Hand 1: I raise the turn. If 3bet, I intend to check/fold the river.

Hand 2: Tough decision between folding and calling. Pot is ginormous, but with 4 people, somebody is bound to have KK beat on that board. I'd probably call but expect to lose.

aK13 · #9 04-17-2005, 06:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'd check-raise hand 2 on the flop, or fold to the 3-bet on the turn.

You're almost certainly not good.

[/ QUOTE ]

C/R? please elaborate. hoping CO bets for you to raise to knock out players? I don't think anybody will fold even for 2 bets in a pot this big (with a reasonable hand) and you're certainly not knocking out any draws.

ArturiusX · #10 04-17-2005, 08:04 AM

Check-raise isn't always about draws, you know.

I think we have the best hand here, and by check-raising we can extract more bets while we are the favourite. We've got 3.5 outs to a stronger hand too.

If we don't like the turn card, I think the showdown will be cheaper too (since we aint folding).