A real question about teaching poker

[KidPokerX]

First things first: The kid must understand the reality of poker. The lifestyle, the swings, the money. He needs reality.

I agree with Bluffoon as well. In my opinion, this is the best way to go about teaching a newbie how to become successful.

[varoadstter]

Have you ever taught anyone before? Other than the basics of how the play goes can you actually offer him insight that has helped you personally? I would suspect (I don't know you personally, so if I'm wrong I apologize) that the best poker books out there would do a better job than you could in instructing someone in the nuances of play.

Dealing your home game is certainly useful. If for no other reason than just to get familiar with the flow of the game. He could also spend time trying to read hands (once he's not overwhelmed keeping up with the play).

At some point he will need to play. Experience can't be simulated - he's got to put money on the line, work on his tells, etc. Depending on what kind of bankroll he's got available it will probably be a while before he's able to make any meaningful amount of money playing.

While he's playing (this is absolutely critical) he needs to keep full records of his session stats. Many poker players are self-deluded into thinking they are "about break even" when in truth they are pissing away their money.

There are some benefits for playing online that make it unique to OTB play. Tools like PokerTracker make it possible to do full post-session analysis and if he plays online this is an opportunity that should not be passed up. It's the fastest way I know of to discover the leaks in my game and give me the hard data on how much each leak is costing me.

Once he "masters" something then it's time to find a new challenge. Perhaps he could play S&Gs or try NL or even play other games like stud or omaha. During all of this you will need to help him evaluate his play and be able to offer suggestions to help him take it to the next level.

I wish you luck.

[Zetack]

[ QUOTE ]
The BEST thing I ever did was grind out $10 on the penny limit tables over at ultimatebet. In 2 months I've almost grinded my way to 1/2. There is absolutely no reason why anyone should go bankrupt trying to become a pro player.

If he cant handle the fact that its 'boring' he'll never make it. I've tried to get anyone who was interested in poker to do this. It always fails, they wanna move up before they are ready. The thing is, is that if you are good you should be able to grind to 1/2 in 3-6 months tops. If you are bad it saves you tons of money, until you get good.

This what I suggest you tell him, whether or not he listens is another thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Man, you are a wild risk taker. I started off on casino vidio game that had limit poker. When I beat that, I moved to play money onoline. When I built up my starting 50 BB play money roll to 1000 BB's (playing limit, none of this accumulating millions at NL play money) I finally jumped into real money. I started with nickel dime though.


--Zetack

[Sincere]

If you cant understand what TStone was doing then the best advice you can give your friend is find someone else to teach him besides you, IMO.

[AnyTwoCanLose]

Sorry, buddy. Its not all world series of poker and Maverick and Rounders.

You are a hot-head.

You describe your friend as a hot head.

You don't seem to have the temperment for poker (perhaps it is a wild guess... but you seem like a tilter) I doubt your friend does.

Seriously... there are two ways to learn how to play poker and make money.

1) read and study a book.

2) Play and lose until you either give up or read and study a book.

Poker is not for noobs. If he can't do math find another game.

The last thing a kid that cares only for smoking and cars and is too lazy to read a book needs is a "father figure" (seriously... what's the deal?) encouraging him to throw his money away.

[PokerGoblin]

[ QUOTE ]
You are a hot-head.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting. On what do you base this astute assessment?

[ QUOTE ]
You don't seem to have the temperment for poker (perhaps it is a wild guess... but you seem like a tilter)

[/ QUOTE ]

Nothing in the original post, or any of my previous posts (feel free to use the search function; PM me if you don't know how) would imply that this is true.

[ QUOTE ]
Poker is not for noobs. If he can't do math find another game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Neither is 2+2. Go back to RGP.

-----------------------------------

You are an idiot, and I base that not on your amazingly insightful line regarding my long desire for a little brother (sorry, already have one), but on the rediculous amount of stupidity that you have cluttered these forums with over the past 2 months.

Get a [censored] life.

PG

[AnyTwoCanLose]

I just base my judgement on the fact that you rudely dismissed a poster whose only mistake was wasting his time writing you a very insightful post.

You comments on me are pretty accurate, though.

[PokerGoblin]

OK

I thank everyone for their time and opinions. There have been some good suggestions made that will really help.

As far as my response to TStoneMBD's initial response, I took what he said as little more than sarcastic nonsense. If you were sincere in your suggestions then I appreciate your effort nonetheless and I apologize for the insulting retort.

I am not trying to shield my friend from the grinding it out as we all have had to do to get where we are now. That is a requirement for improvement. All I am trying to do is prevent him from the same problems that occur for all people who dive into this with no real direction.

Perhaps a better query would have been titled something like "If you had to start over again, what would you do differently to get back to where you are now?" or something to that effect.

At any rate, the hostilities were unnecessary, and I apologize for my role in them.

If anyone is interested I will post later when and if this materializes.

Thanks again for the advice

PG

[Triumph36]

I say teach him the rules, tell him about good starting hands, and let him go on play money or micro stakes. I think that people recommending that he read a book before he's even begun to play don't understand that a player has to look at poker as an interest first, because as a profession, it's a rather boring profession.

If he's smart, he will begin to develop a rudimentary understanding of the basic concepts without knowing it. When you think he's break-even or close to it, then get out the books and begin teaching that way.

[Shawn Keller]

Assuming that you are qualifed to teach him how to play poker, I am not understanding why you would want to give him free lessons, he's not even 21 and you seem to think he's lacking in several important areas, I would definitely advice against teaching him at this time. If anything you should recommend that he read all he can before you start teaching him that he read the basic holdem book by S&M and then he reads HPFAP and John Feeney's "inside the poker mind" and all the essays on 2+2 as well as the good articles archived in cardplayer. Let him spend 3-6 months studying the game on his own, working with simulation programs or play money and not even doing any gambling initially before he starts playing low limits, if he has that kind of dedication then he may become a decent player or better.

Remember you don't have to teach anybody how to play no matter how persistent they are in wanting free lessons, and you shouldn't talk poker to a student in a live game thats bad for the game.

Hope it works out for you,

Shawn "Lightning" Keller