A real question about teaching poker

PokerGoblin · #1 04-13-2005, 11:11 AM

OK I started a new thread because the previous one on the subject had already become cluttered w/ BS...

(Cross posted in General Holdem)

A little background:

A friend from work, 6 years younger than I, has asked me (on several occasions) to teach him to play poker. He's a good kid, 20 yrs old.

He has a general idea of the money that can be made playing, I don't think he is all that mathmatically inclined though. He seems genuinely serious about learning, I tried to dissuade him, telling him of the thousands of dollars I've burned through over time to get to where I am now... but he seems pretty much set on learning, so I am going to teach him.

My first thought was to let him deal for us in our home game. That way he can get a feel for the flow of the game, at the same time he can collect a few tips and use that money to build a bankroll. After a couple sessions, he should have a pretty good idea of what it's about on the surface and if it's something he's interested in.

If he wants to pursue it, I will then start to explain a few of the basic concepts, such as tight preflop standards, pot odds, position etc.

I am concerend that he is blinded by the money potential and could possible go into ruin because of it. I would describe him as having an addictive personality, he is 20, he smokes cigs, drinks regularly and is obsessed with modifying his car... he's a good kid though, he helps his mom support the family (he lives w/ his mom and younger teenage brother); he lost his dad about 1 1/2 years ago.

If you going to teach a complete newbie poker, primarily holdem, how would you go about the subject?

Thanks,

PG

TStoneMBD · #2 04-13-2005, 12:21 PM

youre right, he probably is going to hurt his financial situation with poker by the way you describe him.

if youre going to teach him how to play poker, get him TOP and the ed miller book. after hes done reading those books tell him to read this forum 40hours a week, or whatever time he can budget into his schedule.

he is only allowed to spend that time in the high content poker forums such as the limit forums, the no limit forums, hush, MTT and 1TT.

once he has accumulated 1000 posts you should give him a test that determines whether he is ready to play poker. you dont want him to start off as a losing player. i was never a losing player and there is no reason why he should be.

if hes not interested in going through these strict guidelines then he cannot play poker. period. you really cant do much to teach your friend how to play, well. learning how to play well takes light years of time, and there are so many books out there that can do a better job than you. this forum is the best way to go about improving your game, but most people wont bother taking the time to learn through here. they want a candy method on becoming the world series of poker champion. that is simply not possible.

Bluffoon · #3 04-13-2005, 12:36 PM

Hand him a couple of books, give him the 2+2 URL, explain general bankroll concepts and advise him to play nano limits and work his way up. Have him send you blocks of hand histories to comment on and question him about his decisions.

Explain to him that if you judge that he isnt serious about studying and learning you are not going to waste your time with him and mean it.

PokerGoblin · #4 04-13-2005, 01:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]

youre right, he probably is going to hurt his financial situation with poker by the way you describe him.

if youre going to teach him how to play poker, get him TOP and the ed miller book. after hes done reading those books tell him to read this forum 40hours a week, or whatever time he can budget into his schedule.

he is only allowed to spend that time in the high content poker forums such as the limit forums, the no limit forums, hush, MTT and 1TT.

once he has accumulated 1000 posts you should give him a test that determines whether he is ready to play poker. you dont want him to start off as a losing player. i was never a losing player and there is no reason why he should be.

if hes not interested in going through these strict guidelines then he cannot play poker. period. you really cant do much to teach your friend how to play, well. learning how to play well takes light years of time, and there are so many books out there that can do a better job than you. this forum is the best way to go about improving your game, but most people wont bother taking the time to learn through here. they want a candy method on becoming the world series of poker champion. that is simply not possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF is your point in posting that? Do you think this is a joke?

BTW don't bother responding, I'm looking for ways to help the kid out, maybe help him skip a few of the growing pains I could have done without.. and maybe show him how he can make a decent supplement to his income in time. It's apparent you're not interested contributing to that.

PG

TStoneMBD · #5 04-13-2005, 01:54 PM

um... i was serious. ive given that advice to many posters on these forums and you are the first person to ever insult me for it. i shouldnt have wasted my time trying to help you. you obviously know what youre doing.

dogmeat · #6 04-13-2005, 03:20 PM

I think having your friend deal for a while is a great tool, providing you give him some feedback after each game so he can get his questions answered. If he has no questions, then he is either the second coming of Stu Ungar, or he probably is not going to do too well at poker.

Also, FWIW - why do so many people cross-post their questions? IMHO it is really annoying.

Dogmeat [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

TheCaptain · #7 04-13-2005, 06:14 PM

TStoneMBD and Bluffon are both right, unless you want to stake him, then go right ahead.

ianlippert · #8 04-13-2005, 07:08 PM

The BEST thing I ever did was grind out $10 on the penny limit tables over at ultimatebet. In 2 months I've almost grinded my way to 1/2. There is absolutely no reason why anyone should go bankrupt trying to become a pro player.

If he cant handle the fact that its 'boring' he'll never make it. I've tried to get anyone who was interested in poker to do this. It always fails, they wanna move up before they are ready. The thing is, is that if you are good you should be able to grind to 1/2 in 3-6 months tops. If you are bad it saves you tons of money, until you get good.

This what I suggest you tell him, whether or not he listens is another thing.

Leonardo · #9 04-13-2005, 09:37 PM

I think the most valuable thing to teach before he even starts playing is the concept of expected value. I'd say using a dice or roulette table may be a good tool to get him thinking the right way about things. Then maybe start playing holdem with the flop and turn already on the table and some amount of money in the pot, and get him to work out different EV calculations based on the last card coming (have the opponents hand face up maybe), such as the opponent has two low pair, he has a pair and top kicker, what is the EV of calling/folding etc. The other things, such as patience, dedication etc, im not sure you can teach anyway, but going in with the right frame of mind sure cant hurt.

four eight suited · #10 04-13-2005, 11:52 PM

Alright, have the kid read TOP but also super system 1. TOP is the most solid book around but you said he might not be that math savvy. Thats why I suggest super system; its an easier read, less math intensive. After and while he is reading these books talk with him about all the concepts. I like the idea of having him deal at your game. You could use sample hands that he deals to explain important concepts. But as everyone knows, it takes experience to learn. These things are a good way to start but he really just has to play as much as he can after learning a few basics.