Adding hands - k8s from the SB

[Lakerman]

Im pretty sure Customer2 is not the same guy as Custom2, also known as Siegel. Custom2 is a world class player though.

[bicyclekick]

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Im pretty sure Customer2 is not the same guy as Custom2, also known as Siegel. Custom2 is a world class player though.

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Ahh. Ok. Well in that case he's not a WCP. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] He does play high-limit all day though and is no scrub. Maybe a little too loose and aggro though. Would explain the weirdish plays I've seen.

Thanks for clarifying.

[surfdoc]

Wow, this feels so incestuous. All these previous posts regarding Lakerman and sure enough here he is now posting.

[astroglide]

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All these previous posts regarding Lakerman and sure enough here he is now posting.

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looks like his first post was affiliate spam too!

[Ulysses]

I guess my primary piece of advice would be when playing high-stakes online poker, you should keep track of which players are WCPs and which guys just have usernames that are similar to those of WCPs.

[William Jockusch]

Two points on evaluating your K8s:

1) People often think in terms of "good kickers" and "lousy kickers" and group the 8 with the lousy ones. This is just plain wrong. There is a world of difference between that 8 kicker, and K2s. One of them wins if it hits its kicker against 33-77. The other one loses. Similar comments apply if your opponent has a weak ace and hits his kicker, or if he has a hand like 67s and catches a pair.

2) The flush draw is a big deal.

In light of points 1 and 2, I think your K8s is actually better than your opponent's average steal raise hand. I mean think about it -- QTo is probably about an average hand for a steal raise. Your K8s has about the same high card strength as QTo and an equally good draw. But the scales are tipped by the surprise value of having an 8 in your hand, which will make you harder to read.

Therefore, I think you should 3 bet preflop here.

If the steal raise came from 1 off the button, I still think your K8s would be worth playing. Your hand would now be slightly weaker than your opponent's average hand, but it is still playable because you already have part of a bet in the pot, and the big blind is likely to fold, putting some dead money in there.

[TheBusiness]

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I constantly see some of the very top players making plays like this and I never make them (my fold sb to a steal is like 85%), so there must be some EV to squeeze out here and I want my cut.

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I think a large portion of the EV to be had here is metagame considerations. If you're folding SB to a steal 85% of the time, people are probably taking more shots at you than they should be. In the long run, with a hand like K8 suited in this position I fold some of the time and 3-bet some of the time. I don't like just calling in the SB in this case for three reasons: 1) it lets the BB in cheaper, 2) it gives you less information about whether the button is stealing or whether he has a legit hand, and 3) it makes it a lot harder to set up a bluff if you miss. So I'd say if you are going to play it, you should 3-bet it, but having said that, I think you should sometimes also fold it.

[DeeJ]

Yeah I 3-bet this preflop if it's only button raised and he's loosish.

K8s beats a lot of cheap button raisers like JT or Q9 or small pairs often enough, and you haven't got enough players in to warrant trying to make it nice for the BB to come along too, so I'd rather take his chips.

If the Ace flops you can either bluff at it or check-fold. Otherwise you have a good chance to win the pot.

[bicyclekick]

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If the Ace flops you can either bluff at it or check-fold.

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You had me til this sentance. Check-fold? HA!

[SA125]

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i would say most people under-rate K8s about as much as they over-rate QTo.

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Gabe is one of those posters who say the most when saying the least.