Thoughts from a green green newbie

[beernutz]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
OK, possible straight here, but if I catch an ace, I am fat, so I probably was over aggressive and I bet out.

[/ QUOTE ]
Deer lord Tony, MS has already added more valuable commentary than I can hope to, but read what you wrote and then consider who else (in terms of holdings) might be in this hand with you. You think an Ace is going to be your salvation here?

As far as playing this hand from this position you might want to invest in S&amp;M's Holdem for Advanced Players or check out Abdul's chart and article. Both are invaluable, IMO.


Just my $.03. I am not a holdem expert, nor do I play one on the net.

[TonySanDiego]

I didn't see the skull and crossbones icon anywhere.

I haven't figured out how to catch the hand history with this site and preserve it. It comes up on a web page and in a different sort of format than most others. I have emailed thepokerclub support to see if I can get a history of all my post flop hands.

I am curious how you would play A 10 on the small blind with a bunch of callers, no raisers. (it was 8 or 9 handed at the time).

Would YOU stay in through a preflop raise with 9 Q in ANY position with several players still in?

Not defending my play, it probably was pretty bad at times. But it was sins of commission, not omission. If I had em, I bet em. And they stayed with em too.

I am not sure a $50 loss after 4 or 5 hours is horrible poker, or just raw poker with some bad luck thrown in. I mean, if I have AA in the pocket, draw a second pair of numbers on the flop, then bet it strong and get called all the way to the river. Is this bad poker or bad luck. This particular hand, the guy had pocket 68s, and finally got the 5th face card on the river. A couple of other wannabe's were calling every step of the way to making a fat pot.

I had several of these, and they add up if one doesn't get a couple of wins out of these occurrances. Conversely, they add up nicely if you catch a couple on the river without getting bitten. But I am told not to stay with 68s under almost any circumstance.

So how would you play AA xx out of the flop. If I bet and get called, do I check it all the way to the river then? Just asking since it is a real situation fresh in my memory.

I am reading the books, I think they say don't play in these sorts of games.

Anyway look at it this way, I have sent some fish out to you ripe for the pickings with a pocket full of thepokerclub's money. I still have to play out the 100 participating hands to get the bonus, so there may be some of my money out there as well before it is over.

[DeliciousDi]

Tony, good luck at the games. If you can come out of a loss having learned just one thing, then it's not a loss, it's an investment in your poker future. A beginner must have poker books to study and study and study, and advice should always be welcomed, but we remember the longest those lessons we pay the most money for.

[beernutz]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I am not sure a $50 loss after 4 or 5 hours is horrible poker, or just raw poker with some bad luck thrown in. I mean, if I have AA in the pocket, draw a second pair of numbers on the flop, then bet it strong and get called all the way to the river. Is this bad poker or bad luck. This particular hand, the guy had pocket 68s, and finally got the 5th face card on the river. A couple of other wannabe's were calling every step of the way to making a fat pot.

I had several of these, and they add up if one doesn't get a couple of wins out of these occurrances. Conversely, they add up nicely if you catch a couple on the river without getting bitten. But I am told not to stay with 68s under almost any circumstance.

So how would you play AA xx out of the flop. If I bet and get called, do I check it all the way to the river then? Just asking since it is a real situation fresh in my memory.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tony, obviously it is a communication deficiency on one of our parts, but I don't understand what you are trying to convey here. When you say you had pocket aces and drew a second pair of numbers on the flop do you mean there was a pair on the flop? And do you mean that the 68s made his flush on the river? I think you do but face card generally connotates one of the broadway straight cards, to me anyway, not the 5th card in a flush. Was the board also two suited in his suit on the flop? If so, consider the hand from his perspective--would you fold here to a single bet? In low limit? And who told you not to stay with 68s under almost any circumstances? With a lot of players in that hand COULD be a monster, but like everything else in life, it depends.

As to how to play pocket aces, there is no one true way to play them, imo. Typically you play them strongly and fast, raising and reraising whenever possible early but after that you have to adjust to conditions.

You should really rethink and restate your questions on the Holdem forums, probably small stakes, imo. Reading the books I suggested in my other post wouldn't hurt either.

Good luck at the tables.

[rusty JEDI]

Tony, first thing is first. When you get a deposit bonus like they gave you...IT IS YOUR MONEY...your game will be better off if you treat it this way, instead of making some poor choices with the notion that "its their money anyway."

The one thing i liked is that you come into the whole thing with an open mind and prepared to learn. Accepting early losses is necessary, but try to minimize them aswell. One good way to do this is get in some of the free roll tournaments that are offered at various sites. www.americascardroom.com has freerolls every night, where it cost you nothing to play (and never have to make a deposit like some sites), and it isnt play money either because you win "promobucks" that turn into real money after a certain number of hands like your pokerclub deposit bonus. These free rolls come in no limit/pot limit/limit holdem and omaha H/L. Other sites offer no previous deposit free rolls as well. I believe www.dynamitepoker.com also offers these. I am sure if you ask people can direct you to some others. And remember these arent just play money, so they offer good experience and a chance to get some minimal renumeration for your time. I would work on these a bit for some free experience before going back to the ring games.

[Hotchile]

"Would YOU stay in through a preflop raise with 9 Q in ANY position with several players still in?"

With the right number of players involved and the right position, I might not even look at my hand.

"I am not sure a $50 loss after 4 or 5 hours is horrible poker, or just raw poker with some bad luck thrown in."

At .25/.50, a fifty dollar loss is 100 big bets. That is a very substantial loss in 4 or 5 hours.

"So how would you play AA xx out of the flop. If I bet and get called, do I check it all the way to the river then?"

With that much action, a checkraise may be necessary somewhere. Not saying that's the case, but sometimes different tactics than just betting out are required.

Tony, nobody here will attack your play, please don't take it that way. (that is unless you anger someone). All comments are intended to be helpful. Sometimes they won't seem all that polite. Take them as they are intended.

Again, best of luck at the tables.

HC

[TonySanDiego]

Boy, the forum is like molassis this morning.

Thanks everyone for trying to be helpful to a knothead.

I think I was just startled yesterday at how badly I did. I guess I thought, because I had read a couple of books, that I would do better.

Yes beernutz, my terminology is poor too.
"a pair of numbers" = a hand such as 77
the "face" card should have read "suit" card. And yes, the hand did pay off well for that player. I did my best to make it expensive for all concerned, but with 2 (as I remember)other mullets staying in too, I guess the odds stayed in favor of pursuing the flush.

I cannot seem to get an answer from "thepokerclub" about retrieving my hand history. If I could, I would go over every hand and try to zero in on the foolish plays.

I will let my little dab of money sit there for a while and go over to Partypoker, where I can email myself every hand I play in. I will play for an hour or two, hopefully better this time, then stop and review my hands against the recommended play I find from various sources.

An interesting thing I read here or somewhere, is that people remember their play to be better than it actually was. But, with the ability to retrieve every hand played after the fact, deceiving yourself is a lot harder to do.

Actually the first thing I am going to do is sit down and study up some more. I guess it is much harder to win 100 BB in 4 or 5 hours than it is to lose it at that rate. [img]/forums/images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

Again, thanks everyone for the insights, and I will endeavor to keep the whining to a minimum.

[TonySanDiego]

I knew you were all worried about me.. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

I have been studying.. studying.. studying. And playing some .02/.04 at PokerStars. Still can't play worth a darn, but at least the lessons are cheaper.

My initial foray into the game was a real eye opener.

I have been charting my opening moves, so at least I will have some semblance of a proper hand initially.

While I was doing this, it ocurred to me that most other players were probably availing themselves of all sorts of aids, charts, spreadsheets etc. I can suspect that some folks have some very sophisticated helper programs.

So my thought is.. perhaps this is why the games online are generally believed to be tougher. After all, if you sat down at a B&amp;M with a fat notebook of your plays, you would likely get a cool reception.

The next logical thought is... if everyone playing online has a playbook beside them, wouldn't we all just be trading money around since everybody is essentially at the same level? ( once of course one gets used to the speed of the game, how to use your playbook etc)

Hmmmnnnn... just wondering.. [img]/forums/images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

I'll let you know if MY playbook helps me any. (so far the answer is an unequivical NOT... but it is still early)

So far this "tuff_fish" is about as tough as the finest pond grown southern catfish you ever sank your teeth into.

[beernutz]

Tony I don't know if they are keeping records of plays as much as keeping records of players. Player notes can be very valuable, especially as you move up in limits.