Ax steal

[woodguy]

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in retrospect, i think that Q9 in the CO was a better chance than A8 two spots later. do the people agree?

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I do.

With 7BB's you have some decent folding equity and probably 2 live ones if called.

Regards,
Woodguy

[b0000000000m]

Second that. Q9 in the CO with 7 or fewer BBs is a go.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
Second that. Q9 in the CO with 7 or fewer BBs is a go.

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for Qx, how big does x need to be? 8?

[Roman]

x = 9 is my cutoff I guess. Maybe 8 or 7 if table is really respecting me.

[b0000000000m]

I'm probably letting Q8 go, but it's close.

[PktAcesSoWht]

I can fully appreciate you folding Q9 in CO only to push with something far inferior after that. I think this is the hardest thing to do in NLHE: Playing cards you would not raise with to steal the blinds. It would be nice if you could have an option not to see your cards until you wanted to. If you didn't know what you had you could make the play on the Button or CO without regard to what cards you had, as it doesn't matter at all, because if somebody comes over the top you are done, and if the flop is not very good to you, you are done.

[b0000000000m]

Edit: Q9o with 7-3 BBs is a go.

[i wanna be me]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
AJ - you can use your table image in better position with way worse cards.

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ok, two hands before this i folded Q9 in the CO. that's clearly better than A2 and worse than AK. what Ax hand would you say it's comparable to?

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I don't know if you can really compare - I guess that Q9 to me would be much like A9 (I prefer the queen still though) - you're probably only getting called by AA-77(66-44 maybe?!?), AKs-A7s, AK-A9, and MAYBE KQs/KQ. A9s-A2s is in BIG trouble against those holdings. At least your queen will be live against Axs/Ax. Then again I don't know exact stack sizes....I hate pushing with A-medium or A-low (suited or unsuited), ESPECIALLY under the gun.

P.S. I push with that Q9 EVERY TIME.

[One Armed Dwarf]

I've often struggled with the claim that pushing live cards (suited connectors and hands like Q9) is a better play than pushing Ax. I have looked at live cards against a range of hands in numerous occasions, and I haven't been able to find an example where the suited connector performs better.

Against the range of hands that you suggested, A9 performs marginally better than Q9. If we include KQ, A9 performs much better than Q9 (and J9 also, so its not about dominance). You might justify pushing Q9 because it performs better when you have a 3-way pot, but I don't believe that 3-way pots happen often enough for Q9 to be better EV.

Has anyone done some math that justifies the live cards theory? Or have a particular scenario where Xx is better than Ax?

[schwza]

another advantage that b00000000000m pointed out to me is that if you hold Ax then the odds that someone else has a calling hand go down significantly.

do you have pokerstove numbers for a9 vs. q9 against the other poster's range?