AK limp reraise - Page 4

Dr. Strangelove · #31 03-25-2005, 12:23 AM

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Time prevents me from looking through your posts at the moment.

Constructed argument:

Betting 2% or so of the pot out of position against someone who called a preflop limp-reraise will not get adequate value if you're ahead, which you're probably not; it will not get him off a better hand; it will not prevent any rational opponent from executing any plan he has for the hand; and God kills a puppy every time someone does it.

--Nate

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You aren't ahead here, so the only value to be had is in picking up a draw on the turn, or getting a better hand to fold. To pick up a draw on the turn you have to get to the turn. If AA calls the flop bet even a small percentage of the time, when it would otherwise have bet for value, betting the minimum is better than checking. The same goes for KK, though it probably checks behind anyway.

This is a such horrible flop for the villains range of hands, it will be hard for him to raise any bet you make if he doesn't have QQ. It will be somewhat easier for him to bet if you check, and you won't be able to call.

I would feel like an idiot if I was in villain's shoes with AA/KK and raised this stupid flop bet only to have the hero move in.

KaneKungFu123 · #32 03-25-2005, 01:55 AM

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move in here. i would hate to bet 250 and have to fold for the rest with those BD draws.

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thats a pretty shitty line.

there are no indications that villian is that loose. if you are going to move all-in here, what is best case scenerio: you are against a draw?

move all-in is probally one of the worst ways to play this hand.

KaneKungFu123 · #33 03-25-2005, 01:58 AM

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If villain is not an idiot you cannot be in the lead here. Worst case scenario he has QQ, maybe AA, best case, AK or JJ. Do whatever would put the fear of god into AA. If there is nothing you could do to make him fold AA, and I think this is probably the case given the stack sizes, give up or make him fold JJ/AK as cheaply as possible. You don't have to move in here to make him fold AK/JJ. Doing something off the wall like betting the absolute minimum on the flop and half the pot on the turn would probably be scarier.

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trying to make players fold AA is about the fastest way to go broke.

KaneKungFu123 · #34 03-25-2005, 02:00 AM

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I can't see Villain folding here, and it smells like AA to me.

I'd just check fold here.

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the only value in this hand is if Villian bluffs. Id bet 1/6 of the pot and fold to any raise. if he calls, i'd bet about 40% of the bet on the turn (assuming a rag falls).

Dr. Strangelove · #35 03-25-2005, 02:29 AM

I agree, you aren't getting AA to fold here.

KaneKungFu123 · #36 03-25-2005, 02:47 AM

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I can't see Villain folding here, and it smells like AA to me.

I'd just check fold here.

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the only value in this hand is if Villian bluffs. Id bet 1/6 of the pot and fold to any raise. if he calls, i'd bet about 40% of the bet on the turn (assuming a rag falls).

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ignore this post, i cant edit it and the words are all [censored] up.

technologic · #37 03-25-2005, 03:09 AM

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move in here. i would hate to bet 250 and have to fold for the rest with those BD draws.

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fsuplayer is being facetious here is he not? i took this line as a joke...

nate1729 · #38 03-25-2005, 02:31 PM

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[ QUOTE ]
Time prevents me from looking through your posts at the moment.

Constructed argument:

Betting 2% or so of the pot out of position against someone who called a preflop limp-reraise will not get adequate value if you're ahead, which you're probably not; it will not get him off a better hand; it will not prevent any rational opponent from executing any plan he has for the hand; and God kills a puppy every time someone does it.

--Nate

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You aren't ahead here, so the only value to be had is in picking up a draw on the turn, or getting a better hand to fold.

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Right. A better hand will not fold to a freaking $5 bet.

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To pick up a draw on the turn you have to get to the turn. If AA calls the flop bet even a small percentage of the time, when it would otherwise have bet for value, betting the minimum is better than checking.

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$5 is also not going to prevent anyone from raising. And who's to say that $5 won't actually induce a raise?

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The same goes for KK, though it probably checks behind anyway.

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I guess if you play with people dumb enough to be disoriented by a $5 bet, you play with people dumb enough to habitually check KK in that spot.

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This is a such horrible flop for the villains range of hands, it will be hard for him to raise any bet you make if he doesn't have QQ.

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Yeah, big pairs really hate rainbow undercard flops.

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It will be somewhat easier for him to bet if you check, and you won't be able to call.

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It shouldn't be any harder for him to bet after you've thrown five bucks in the pot. And of course you can't call, but that's because you're probably destroyed in the first place.

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I would feel like an idiot if I was in villain's shoes with AA/KK and raised this stupid flop bet only to have the hero move in.

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The above statement defies commentary.

--Nate

Dr. Strangelove · #39 03-25-2005, 10:57 PM

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Right. A better hand will not fold to a freaking $5 bet.

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Are you joking? You think the bet is supposed to make the villain fold?

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I guess if you play with people dumb enough to be disoriented by a $5 bet, you play with people dumb enough to habitually check KK in that spot.

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If an excellent player makes this bet and you have never seen him make a similar bet it will be confusing. I agree that if the villain thinks the hero is an idiot this bet will be completely useless.

As for your KK comment, if you would make a significant raise here with it you don't play well. What hands can KK beat that a person would limp reraise a solid raiser and reraiser with?

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Yeah, big pairs really hate rainbow undercard flops.

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I don't know why I'm even arguing with you anymore, because you clearly don't know what you are talking about. If the villain's liberal hand range is AA KK QQ JJ AK, and puts hero on AA KK QQ AK, a queen high flop is terrible for AA because KK doesn't have to pay off the trap, QQ is now way ahead, AK isn't paying off, and AA is splitting. This is a terrible flop for KK because AA is still way ahead, and QQ is also now way ahead, and AK isn't paying off. It is a terrible flop for JJ because the only hand it could be ahead of is AK. It's a terrible flop for AK because there is no hand it can be ahead of.
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I would feel like an idiot if I was in villain's shoes with AA/KK and raised this stupid flop bet only to have the hero move in.

The above statement defies commentary.

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If you have KK and raise the stupid flop bet (to get AK to fold cuz that's what you can beat) and hero reraises all in you probably have to fold, having lost not only your raise, but a basically free shot at outdrawing AA and QQ.

As an aside, this hand illustrates why you might be better off limp reraising with 66 and 78s rather than AK.

Ionphore · #40 03-26-2005, 01:13 AM

People are saying to ignore what he said and block it out.

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He starts whining about how I must have Aces when he has Kings, etc. etc.

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So he is the one who has aces, and he wants you to have kings? Check-Fold the flop.

This would ussually be a push for me though most of the time. Then again, I don't limp reraise AKs normally, id rather do it with a wierd hand instead.