Live 4/8 hand. Missed opportunity?

[Jeffage]

Why wouldn't you plan to checkraise this turn even without the extra information?

Jeff

[colgin]

[ QUOTE ]
For the love of all that is good and holy checkraise the turn given how the action played out.


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree 100%. Nothing good can come from you insisting on betting out here. You have perfect position on the tilter to trap everyone for 2 bets here. If you bet everyone may just call (as they did) or, worse, tilter may raise and knock out everybody who is drawing dead (or near dead) to your hand.

[QTip]

I would c/raise the flop; however, if you do, wouldn't you just bet out the turn unless you saw him reaching for chips...would hate to see that turn check through.

[imported_stealthcow]

the only time i woudln't c/r that turn is if there is now 2 to a flush. then i'd bet and hope that utg raises you.

stealthcow-

[colgin]

[ QUOTE ]
the only time i woudln't c/r that turn is if there is now 2 to a flush. then i'd bet and hope that utg raises you.


[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand this. His raise (if he makes it) isn't going to knock out any flush draws, although it may knock out players who can't beat Hero. Hero should still try to trap the whole field for 2 BB's each. He will either be drawn out on or not; there is nothing he can do about that.

[GreywolfNYC]

[ QUOTE ]
the only time i woudln't c/r that turn is if there is now 2 to a flush. then i'd bet and hope that utg raises you.

stealthcow-

[/ QUOTE ]

That was the case, but UTG didn't raise me.

[bernie]

It's a live straddle? I haven't seen one of those in awhile.

Working my way down the thread, so this may be redundant.

Flop: c/r. EASY c/r. There's a possible 1.5 bets missed.

Turn: Since you didn't AND you see the guy reaching for chips, another EASY c/r. What the hell are you betting out when you have this info for? There's another possible 3 bets missed.

Total possible missed bets? 2+ This could be higher depending on the action after your first c/r along with the possibility of folds to your c/r on either the flop or turn. If the guy is really overaggro, you could go for another c/r on the turn after doing it on the flop. (ie...visual reads like you had)

Nice hatchet job though.

b

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
the only time i woudln't c/r that turn is if there is now 2 to a flush. then i'd bet and hope that utg raises you.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd do it even then. The UTG is less likely to raise you at this point. He will figure you have something to be betting into him after him being the aggressor.

Think 'effective' odds at this point. 2 bets on the turn to see the river is good. Even if they have to put them in 1 at a time their effective odds are cut.

b

[GreywolfNYC]

[ QUOTE ]
It's a live straddle? I haven't seen one of those in awhile.

Working my way down the thread, so this may be redundant.

Flop: c/r. EASY c/r. There's a possible 1.5 bets missed.

Turn: Since you didn't AND you see the guy reaching for chips, another EASY c/r. What the hell are you betting out when you have this info for? There's another possible 3 bets missed.

Total possible missed bets? 2+ This could be higher depending on the action after your first c/r along with the possibility of folds to your c/r on either the flop or turn. If the guy is really overaggro, you could go for another c/r on the turn after doing it on the flop. (ie...visual reads like you had)

Nice hatchet job though.

b

[/ QUOTE ]
Nah. Just half a hatchet job. I agree with you about the turn c/r but not the flop. The guy who straddled was not a total maniac, just an otherwise decent player on tilt. A c/r on the flop would have knocked out the 2+2er and the guy on her left, most likely, on the turn. It was close between leading or check/calling so I chose check/calling and I thik it was the correct decision. Nothing to gain by check raising the flop.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
Nothing to gain by check raising the flop.


[/ QUOTE ]

Really? There are 15 bets in the pot. (5 players in) If the others call, it's a value raise on your draw. If they fold, then hitting a 7 or 9 may win it for you if other overcards also hit. Also if they fold to a single bet coming back to them after getting raised, getting around 20-1 on their calls, that's a good thing. It's a mistake for them to fold, but again, value for you if they call.

You might also be able to c/r the turn again if you see the guy reaching for chips.

[ QUOTE ]
A c/r on the flop would have knocked out the 2+2er and the guy on her left, most likely, on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not sure what you mean by this. A flop c/r knocking them out on the turn? ok. You might have combined 2 sentences here.

If they call the flop c/r, and you hit the str8, they likely have many hands they are drawing dead with that you don't want to knock them out on the turn with.

C/r this flop, then leading on the turn, they won't likely put you on a str8.

b