KK hand for review - Page 2

Unarmed · #11 03-22-2005, 01:40 PM

Ignoring PF.

Does anyone honestly think Turk is getting away from this if Villain has an Ace? Forget it. Assume Villain DOESN'T have an ace and maximize your take under that scenario. If he has an Ace you are SOL anyway so just don't worry about it.

curtains · #12 03-22-2005, 01:44 PM

btw I don't have a problem with the preflop raise. Also when the pot more than equals your stack and you are headsup against one opponent, it's time to simply pray that they don't have an ace. You should be winning this hand enough here.

Unarmed · #13 03-22-2005, 01:49 PM

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btw I don't have a problem with the preflop raise.

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Just to be sure, neither do I, and if the hand had been cut off after the PF action neither would anyone else.

curtains · #14 03-22-2005, 01:50 PM

Yeah well I like to raise more preflop when an ace is coming, and raise a little less when it isn't.

curtains · #15 03-22-2005, 01:56 PM

btw according to my math, and since you are willing to put all your money in, an ace flopping here and your opponent having one, will happen just about 17% of the time.

sofere · #16 03-22-2005, 02:10 PM

So without a read on villain, you would always get all of your money in on the flop no matter what (given preflop action)?

Personally I don't think your committed to this. I like the PF raise for the fact that you aren't committed to the pot. If you fold every time an ace flops, your still making a strong profit.

Based on the PF call, I'd say theres a strong chance villain has an ace. Too strong for me to risk my whole stack on a CR without any FE. I'd let him outplay me on this one.

Unarmed...what would you put villain on with that PF call?
I'd say more than 60% of the time he has some ace. Most of the rest of the time he has lower PP (which may have hit a set). I'd say given the range of hands, your gonna be a big dog rather than a big favorite. JMO.

RobGW · #17 03-22-2005, 02:12 PM

I see a number a people advocating betting out on this flop. Why? If he has an Ace he is not going to fold. If he has a lower PP which I think is a reasonable holding, he should fold fearing that you have AK. Now if hero checks the flop, villian will either check behind indicating he missed the flop also, in which case you bet out on the turn. Or he may bet in which case you have to compare the pot odds to the chance you are ahead. In this case hero is getting 2.1 to 1 assuming hero pushes and villian calls. Do you think hero wins this 1 out of 3 times? Also consider that checking on the flop may induce a bluff from villian. Also consider your opponent. Has he ever been caught bluffing? How aggressive is he with PP? I know its a risky play to continue with this hand but I agree with unarmed that you shouldn't necessarily give up when an A hits against one opponent.

Unarmed · #18 03-22-2005, 02:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Unarmed...what would you put villain on with that PF call?
I'd say more than 60% of the time he has some ace. Most of the rest of the time he has lower PP (which may have hit a set). I'd say given the range of hands, your gonna be a big dog rather than a big favorite. JMO.

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If Villain is solid the chances of him having an ace are essentially zero given the PF action. (unless he has two of them)

If Villain sucks he can have a wide range of hands here as he doesn't necessarily have to have correct implied odds to call with PP or suited connectors, or any 2 broadway, etc etc.

beggars · #19 03-22-2005, 03:22 PM

Betting out at least represents the Ace and you give yourself a chance to win the hand right there. Checking of any kind shifts the power to the villain and now he's putting pressure on you even if he doesn't have the ace.

Personally, as I said before, I push before the flop and probably fold after the ace hits, but betting out the flop is way better than check/calling or check/raising.

Scuba Chuck · #20 03-22-2005, 03:26 PM

I almost always bet out here. Checking gives villain the opportunity to "convince" you to fold this. And Check-raising isn't enough to convince them to fold (due to the low remaining chips to call). IMO, there are enough times that the villain doesn't have an ace, and where the villain has an ace with a bad kicker (who folds), that it warrants an open bet/push here.