KK hand for review

Turk · #1 03-22-2005, 02:32 AM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (8 handed) converter

UTG+1 (t1690)
MP1 (t920)
MP2 (t775)
CO (t565)
Button (t480)
Hero (t870)
BB (t1765)
UTG (t935)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls t50, MP1 calls t50, 1 fold, CO calls t50, 1 fold, Hero raises to t275, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls t225, MP1 folds, CO folds.

Flop: (t700) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets t350, Hero raises to t595 (All-In), UTG+1 calls t245.

Turn: (t1890) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t1890) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t1890

Benholio · #2 03-22-2005, 02:41 AM

With all of those limpers, I'd have probably just pushed.

Your raise is really close to the point to where you should push instead, if not already there. You are allowing your opponent to fold to a bad flop but not yourself.

lutefisk · #3 03-22-2005, 11:25 AM

Additionally, if you're not going to push pf, that says you're willing to fold on a bad flop or to an all in re-raise. I think an A is a bad flop, especially if the other guy bets out. You still have <10BB if you fold. Not a great spot to be, but it's the risk you take by not pushing. If you weren't going to fold to an ace, I'd suggest the all in pf.

I'm not sure if this was part of your line or not, but perhaps you made that raise as a gamble. Making the pf action more likely to be called by at least one player than if you pushed with the idea that if the flop comes without an A, you can probably get a call on your all in due to your stack size and double up. I'll do that sometimes, but I know I'm taking a risk, and usually regretfully admit that it's time to let go when the A shows up.

betgo · #4 03-22-2005, 11:53 AM

With a hand as strong as KK, I like the bet you made preflop better than a push.

When an ace hit and your opponent bet into you, you needed to fold. What do you think your opponent called you with?

KenProspero · #5 03-22-2005, 12:14 PM

Any read on the UTG+1?

Not much to say here, either UTG+1 has the Ace or he doesn't.

Based on the betting, looks like he has the Ace.

As much as I hate to do so, I think I fold here

beggars · #6 03-22-2005, 12:48 PM

B*tch of a flop. Personally, I push with KK preflop there though your big bet was solid. I think you get better value pushing because there are a LOT of flops you don't want to see and only a handful that can really get you paid postflop. If you don't push there, checking, then calling a big bet when an A hit was just an emotional call. Should have folded.

Something else to think about is your skill level and your play on any given night. Can you lay it down when the flop goes bad? Pushing with KK preflop may reduce the size of some pots but you'll almost ALWAYS be ahead. When in doubt, with hands like that, pushing is a safe, tight-aggressive play.

Unarmed · #7 03-22-2005, 01:07 PM

Its fine.
You can't just give up on the hand because an ace fell as you only have one opponent. Any continuation bet will pot commit you anyway so you can bet out or C/R all-in.

If villain has an ace youre toast either way but C/Ring all-in makes more off Villain's non-ace holdings. Villain will also bet this a good % of the time without an ace as he would have assumed you're betting the 2 flush flop if you have one.

Checking also keeps weaker PP in blah blah blah...

beggars · #8 03-22-2005, 01:18 PM

Agree with Unarmed that a bet on the flop is a solid play here as well. You'll know ASAP if he's got the ace. Don't really like the c/r. Just gets more money into a pot you're likely behind.

aeakos · #9 03-22-2005, 01:36 PM

For me, I'm pushing preflop. With all the limpers the pot size is already 225. That plus a normal 3-4x BB raise of 150-200, you've already commited >40% of your chip stack. For that reason I push preflop.

Post-flop. I'm not loving checking this, but wow, what a dillema. I think you have to insta-push on the flop, I don't see a reason to C/R. That being said, an ace is a very likely card for him to be calling you with (and pocket pairs.)After he raises you, you have no fold equity on your push. He is going to call 245 in a 1645 pot, so it's either open push or fold to reraise.

So I think: Push-preflop, if you don't and you check and he bets with that ace out there, you've allowed him to take control of the hand and well, you're in for a ride on the ole party number generator if you want to continue with the hand. I'd like to see what Irie, adar, or Nick B. thinks about this one.

umm I think betting small on the flop is a horrible idea. If you bet small, you're only doing two things. Making the pot bigger for someone drawing to the flush and getting yourself stuck on this hand. If you bet small and he reraises, pot size pretty much dictates you're going for a ride. You've committed well over 60% of your chips on this hand.

Unarmed · #10 03-22-2005, 01:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Agree with Unarmed that a bet on the flop is a solid play here as well. You'll know ASAP if he's got the ace. Don't really like the c/r. Just gets more money into a pot you're likely behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

Err... I think I said I liked the C/R. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
What amount are you planning to bet on this flop that doesn't pot commit you?